Heisei series . . . kinda sucked
Posted Feb-04-2014 8:15 PM
In preparation for May 16th I've been watching ALL of the films in order and I never realized how much I disliked the heisei series. Anyone else? Now it began AMAZING. Godzilla Returns and Godzilla vs. Biollante are two of my all time favorites. King Ghidorah was pretty good too but than it was a huge let down. Toho just shelled out a Godzilla movie every year with bland stories/characters/ action. Mothra was AWFUL, Mechagodzilla was decent but nothing amazing, Space Godzilla THE WORST GODZILLA FILM in my opinion, and I know so many of you on here love it but I thought Destroyah was incredible boring. The millenium series also started strong and ended poorly, I disliked both the Kiryu movies but if you take Final Wars as a cheesy throwback to 70s style Godzilla films it's quite entertaining. So yeah, Heisei is my least favorite series of the three.
Posted Feb-04-2014 8:34 PM
I respectully disagree. I get what you're saying, but I think that the Showa era was the worst overall, mostly because everything after Ghidora, the Three-headed Monster is too cornball for me (not that the later movies in other series were not corny, just not in the same way). I'm also not a fan of Millenium, 2000 and GMK were good, but that's it.
Destroyah's my second favorite (after 54), but you are right, SpaceGodzilla (despite having my favorite badguy) is one stinker of a movie. Mothera's not much better. Biollante is one of my absolute faveorites though.
I agree that all three series start off strong and taper off. I guess I just disagree with your view on Destroyah, which elivates the entire Heisei era for me.
Posted Feb-04-2014 8:49 PM
You're actually not alone with that sentiment. A lot of older fans these days really can't stand the Heisei series and their opinions mirror your own: Godzilla '84 and Godzilla vs. Biollante were great films, but Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah was a mess and the following three were bland if not downright terrible.
Godzilla vs. Destroyah seems to be a movie most fans wet themselves over because of Godzilla's burning state and Destroyah relating back to the Oxygen Destroyer. I join them in that pant-wetting, to be perfectly honest, but a lot of it is, admittedly, from nostalgia. Godzilla vs. Destroyah has just as many script problems as Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah and, contrary to some people's belief, is not one of the best movies of the series. I think this meme adequately describes most fans' feelings about Godzilla vs. Destroyah on some sub-concious level:
Now I don't think Godzilla vs. Destroyah is a bad movie. As a matter of fact it's still one of my more favorite films of the series. That said... this meme isn't too far off. (And to be fair I think it's a better movie than Revenge of the Sith.)
But now that I've spent time lamenting the problems with the Heisei series, I also want to say I don't think it's as bad as some older fans believe. Yes there's a lot of underdeveloped potential, some poorly realized ideas and messy storytelling, but the movies still work 70-80% of the time.
The ideas were still more daring than what had come out of the 1970s. The photography was outstanding. the lighting and shots were typically gorgeous. The Godzilla suits were, and probably still are, the standard for Toho suitmation. Some of the character arcs were intruiging and there's some fun battles in the first half of the series.
It's no Showa era, but I always felt it was an adequate, if not logical progression of the series.
Posted Feb-04-2014 10:20 PM
The first two in the Heisei era, Godzilla 1984 and Godzilla vs. Biollante were great, but Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla was also highly enjoyable. It had a good storyline, a great rematch between Rodan and Godzilla, and what seemed like an unstoppable foe for Godzilla in MG until he was revived by Rodan. I also thought the Rodan and Baby G suits were cool. If I had to rank the Heisei era films, I'd say:
Godzilla vs. Biollante
Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla
Godzilla vs. Destroyah
Godzilla vs. King Ghidora
Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla
Godzilla vs. Mothra
Posted Feb-04-2014 11:10 PM
I've always felt there are flashes of brilliance in Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II, but nothing that elevates the movie beyond mediocre. It's an improvement over Godzilla and Mothra: The Battle for Earth, but just marginally. I think vs. MechaGodzilla II is the kind of movie made for fans who want less human interaction and more monster action. More than any other Heisei film it lets the monsters take the front seat in regards to story. Not exactly my kind of thing, but I guess the younger fans dig it.
Posted Feb-05-2014 12:35 AM
Yeah, I kind of think the Heisei series was a bit overrated. I loved the start of it with Godzilla 85. Personally, I felt the last three films saved the sereis for me. But my grip was mostly with G vs KG and G vs. M. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah began very strong and it redefined KG as Godzilla's mortal enemy. But after the first (and fanastic) fight between the two monsters, the film fell apart. Godzilla's rampage after the fight felt like a plot to a totally different Godzilla film. The Mecha King Ghidroah at the end was kind of random. The film should have been called Godzilla vs. Mecha King Ghidroah. Godzilla vs. Mothra is in my opinon the WORST GODZILLA FILM EVER MADE! I'd take Godzilla's revenge any day. It felt like they wrote the script first and added Godzilla in later. In fact, Godzilla takes a back seat to Mothra and Battra. The whole film spent most of it's time defining Battra as the main evil monster. But then all of a sudden, Godzilla shows up and now he is the main threat out of nowhere which lead to the awful and random team up of Mothra and Battra. Don't tell me the whole "well he was always the main threat in the film" crap because that's not what the film was trying to do at first. The SFX in that film were terrible and the Mothra puppets looked silly. The final fight was a total bore and it actually has Godzilla LOSE to two silly puppets. I don't watch a Godzilla film to see him lose in the film I want to see him kick ass which he didn't in this film. I was fine with Godzilla vs. The Thing because that was before he made his anti-hero jump. I will always hate that film, I even tried watching it recently and I still hate it. I think the Heisei films tried too hard to be complex and serious. Some worked like Godzilla 85 and Godzilla vs. Desrotayah. But G vs KG and G vs M failed completely.
Here's which films of the Heisei series I prefer.
Godzilla vs. Destoryah
Godzilla vs. MG 2
Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla (yes I love that one)
Godzilla vs. Biolantte
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
Godzilla vs. Mothra (worst Godzilla film ever!!!)
I will always prefer the Showa films because that where Godzilla and all of the Toho monsters made their mark! Plus, they always had simple stories without being too complex. In many ways the Showa series was like a comic book series, it was silly at times but was serious when it had to be.
Posted Feb-05-2014 4:58 AM
Really you think heisei is the worst. I love that series, but I admit it has faults, but really the worst?
Sure the showa series started out strong, but then at the middle it completely collapsed. Sure it had a strong ending with the MechaGodzilla movies, but Godzilla vs Hedorah, Megalon, Gigan, Godzilla's revenge, and Son of Godzilla take down all the amazing things about the eary enstallments and makes the series less well done as a whole.
Then there's the Millennium series. Even if the later showa didn't ruin that series for you and you still consider it the best of them all you'd put the millennium above heisei? Sorry that's something I really don't understand. First we have the first movie which was decent, one of the stronger entries in that series it was followed by Megaguirus which I've never heard any1 say anything about that movies that puts it above the lower level of Godzilla movies overall. Followed by GMK which most people like so can't really comment too much on it. Then there's the 2 mechaG movies which are a mixed bag, but by no means great, followed by Final Wars which there's about a 50/50 chance of either loving or hating it. Overall even if the showa series comes first I see no way the the Millennium series overall is better than heisei.
Posted Feb-05-2014 5:06 AM
Sorry but I have to disagree with you npinkham. I think the hesei series is the best and strongest. Sure it had its ups and downs but I personally think it is way better than the Showa and Milenium series and to me, the Hesei series had the strongest stroylines too. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and Godzilla vs Destroyah are my absolute favourites in the Hesei series and Godzilla's revenge is one of the worst movie I have ever seen in my life so I would have to say that Godzilla film is the worst. Everyone has their opinion and I respect you opinion.
Posted Feb-05-2014 10:49 AM
Show a series really shouldn't be compared to the other two series swing that they're the original series. My only real gripe with Shows is Godzilla's Revenge, the rest of the movies don't bother me. Hensei series is great IMO. But I think time travel of G vs KG kind of screwed up the series as far as a mixed bag of wtf plots. G vs Mothra is God awful. I actually like the SpaceG film better. The worst series IMO is the Millnieum series. G2000 great. G vs Megagurius boring. GMK good. G vs MG ok? Acting is poor as hell. G vs MG SOS Y IS MOTHRA IN THIS MOVIE!? Acting is worse. GFW is basically a rushed movie with a rushed plot and its terrible, sure the new monster designs were sweet but the movie is awful. Millinieum series is the worst.
Posted Feb-05-2014 12:20 PM
I think the Millennium series generally has as many problems as the Heisei series, but they're just different problems. Whereas the Heisei series falls flat with the execution of great ideas, the Millennium series tends to have great execution, albiet with ideas that have already been used in the series. I generally put Heisei and Millennium on the same pedistal.
Another thing that torpedoed the Heisei series was the strict continuity. It really had no impact on the overarcing stories, caused plotholes and made it really hard for Toho to sell the movies to overseas distributors. I can understand why the Millennium movies were so disconnected after the experimenting with tight continuity.
The reason the Showa series is so much better than the other two isn't because of the number of movies that are better. Or even because it started everything. It's better because the quality of the good movies outweigh the weak films in its own series and the best films in the other two series.
Posted Feb-05-2014 12:26 PM
i kind of agree, the first 2 movies were the best of the heisei, gvskg was good and is one ofmy favourites but it did have 'some' lazy writing and confusing plot holes, battle for earth was bad because 1. godzilla was just there for no story reason 2. the sound effects for the atomic breath sound like a laser beam, mg was good in my opinion cause it shows that godzilla has emotions and baby shows that as well, spacegodzilla was boring, and the only reason why i even like g vs d is because of the emotional ending and the plot surroudning godzilla's death and juniors arrival, destroyah himseldf wasn't that impresive onscreen, to me godzilla looked like he was more powerful even the humans state that destoryah is not match against godzilla.
Posted Feb-05-2014 12:39 PM
you know the more i grow up the more i start appreciating how good the showa series is, the millenium series is just ok. the showa had more original monsters and the mojority were/still are popular.
i think really the reason why the heiesi was so good is because the way godzilla was treated, he was a force of nature twisted by humanity and no is a freak of nature, but he remember who he has met (shindo) and regretfully 'has' to kill him, not because he's godzilla, it's because it's his job, shindo is pretty much the reason the godzillasaurus became godzilla, that is what both godzilla and shindo think and so shindo LETS himself be killed. and godzilla's death are the reasons why the heisei is good, not because of the plots of the humans or the monster, it's because of godzilla as a character.
Posted Feb-05-2014 12:47 PM
Characterization is great, but if you don't have a strong story to go with it you're splitting hairs. And how was Shindo directly responsible for the Godzillasaurus becoming Godzilla? It was the Futarians that transported him into the ocean where he became Godzilla.
The scene between Godzilla and Shindo is one of the absolute best moments in the Heisei series though. The meaning of the scene can be disected by fans until the end of time, but regardless of its intentions its an emotionally strong moment and one of Kazuki Omori's best directorial efforts in these movies.
Posted Feb-05-2014 12:57 PM
well it's sort of shindo's fault from 'a certain point of veiw' well to shindo anyway, he feels responsible because he thought he had turned the dinosaur into godzilla when his sub got destoryed, he thought it was a good thing untill after godzilla defeated ghidorah, also godzilla may have blamed shindo because 1. he left him 2. shindo had a nuclear sub and would've turned him to what he is, which is what godzilla doesn't want.
to help with my point i recomend you watch the review of this movie by youtube channel Zazubaar, he makes great discriptions on the story and any parts that he thinks are very powerful moments
also when i watch that shindo and godzilla seen, i actually have a fear tears, that is how powerful that seen is.
Posted Feb-05-2014 3:14 PM
look i know some people say that it suked i think its better than all the other series cuz he had alot of anger in him he is the 3rd most op godzilla 04,54 and heisei. 04 is the son cuz the intro of FW ends in that scene with Jr in the dust and it made him the king and 2000 did not have a attiude he has like ha that tickeld and godzilla 1990s was hit and then he got mad because he almost died vs Mecha G its the same with Jr ozaki is like Rodan in FW cuz godzilla almost died and he could not make Kaizer blow up with his blue atomic breath and his hyper spiral ray could blow every thing up. the Heisei has a sequel FW and that is why it good because hesei has 8 movies FW is like a back up plan so you dont feel bad about Jr so hesei is a really good series because he had attiude and millinum did not exept FW and brings alot of new wepons,new monsters and old monsters upgraded and stronger than ever i bet 2000 would not stand a chance vs Space Godzilla,king ghidorha,destroyha i bet he would die 90s put up a fight so hesei is better
Posted Feb-05-2014 3:45 PM
what a minute the heisei series sucked?.... no i have to disagree i loved some of these films my favorite of them of course was the return of godzilla/85 but my second favorite was vs. destroyah then vs. mechagodzilla 2 i dont think these movies sucked at all because when my nephew comes up its either something out of the heisei series that we watch or even godzilla final wars or course he is only 6 years old but he loves these type of films sure they could of had the more ishoro honda style to them but it is what it is and i feel like some of these were better than some of the millenium series we got other than godzilla 2000, and GMK but i did not care for the others but koichi kawakita can not compare to kenji suzuki in the arts of special effects now can he?
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Posted Feb-05-2014 4:00 PM
Each series had it's stinkers, it of course comes down to personal preference but for me the showa series had of course the most films but only a small amount that I generally disliked. Raids again was so so, King Kong for me was pretty bad, Gigan I loved as a kid but watching now it's pretty awful, Megalon was iffy, kinda so bad it's good and Revenge is pretty much a compilation film. Everything else is good. Most of the heisei series fell flat to me, it really did come off as lazy film making in my eyes. Millenium, I thought the Kiryu movies were dull but even enjoyed the much hated final wars . It's just my opinion but my tally of good over bad films.
SHOWA 10 of 15
HEISEI 3 of 7
MILLENIUM 4 of 6
Posted Feb-05-2014 6:20 PM
Please everybody be respectful on here. Saying one series is better than another is of course OPINION. I do have to say though that we can't use the numbers don't lie as a debate to the film quality. By that debate Justin Bieber is the greatest musician in the world and Twilight the greatest film series if money intake is what you meant by numbers don't lie. Not, picking a fight, just saying.
I'm sorry if my opinions and the opinions of others is causing some anger, it shouldn't. I write on these forums because it intrigues me to talk about my favorite hobby with others, not to stir up a frenzy.
Posted Feb-05-2014 6:45 PM
In that case, I disagree that the Heisei series is the best. It's definitely not. But I made that comment because your spelling and grammar are practically indecipherable. Most of the time I can't tell what you're trying to say, because it's such a mess. Therefore, if I'm a 40 year old man (I'm not that old) then I can only asume I'm speaking with an 10 year old-- which I doubt is the case as well. Would it hurt to spend more time on your writing? Perhaps then I can reply with a more civil rebuttal.
And what numbers are you talking about that don't lie? There are no numbers to suggest the Heisei series is better or worse. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
Posted Feb-05-2014 7:00 PM
look gman i dont want to be mean so can we just stop and be friends and dont say nothing rude like i cant spell which i do but if you had a mom like mine then you would know because she rushes you when your on the computer like on godzilla or youtube i cant even l watch SHMA Reviews right now she asked do you have something better to do i would play soccer but it like 28 degrees so can we just be Friends Gman and sorry for saying that your 40 years old
Posted Feb-07-2014 9:03 PM
so... in my opinion hesei did not suck... its probaly the clooset thing to the 2014 reboot, hate to say it but, 2014 is probaly gonna be alot like the hesei so maybe you should re concider what your saying because hesei was the most realistic... in fact hesei if not the best then the most well respected...
Posted Feb-10-2014 10:56 AM
What I didn't like about the Heisei series is that it never explains how Godzilla came back after thirty years, and how he or she had a baby, and I applaud how they had a consistent character through out most of the movies, Miki Saegusa, but she just doesn't seem to be that interesting. She's supposed to be the one who doesn't want Godzilla killed, but Dr. Kyohei Yamanei was a way better character in the type. Maybe it's the performance of the actors or the ineptitude of the writers and directors.
Posted Feb-10-2014 3:37 PM
to answer your question on how godzilla came back after thirty years its quite obvious when godzillasaurus was teleported back to their time he was still the original only instead of the h-bomb creating him he was teleported back to a waste zone of nuclear energy then became more powerful when devouring all of the nuclear sub marines energy in godzilla vs king ghidorah 1991 :)
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Posted Feb-10-2014 9:05 PM
You kind of have it right. But the Godzillasaurus was not the original Godzilla. It was only the Heisei Godzilla. The Godzillasaurus was mutated into Godzilla when a nuclear sub sank in the mid 1970s and irradiated it. It then became Godzilla and attacked Japan in 1984...etc...etc...
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