Godzilla and Shindo face to face scene4,783 Views18 RepliesAdd A Reply
ok so i was on a topic about the hesei series here, and i mentioned that shindo-godzilla scne is one if not the 'most' powerful scenes in either the heisei series or the whole franchsie, but some or maybe a lot 'somehow' find that this scene is a comedy/funny scene one big example is james rolf aka AVGN, i saw a video of this scene that was full of comments saying how this was a funny moment (i can't find it) but watch this scene very carefully and tell me if you think it is a very powerful scene. i even cry when i see this scene.
also this one scene gives godzilla more characterisation than most of the heisei except the moments leading up to his death like jr's death
It's a great scene and the best element is the ambiguity of it all. Does Godzilla remember? Is Shindo asking for death?
yes and yes, shindo feels guilty for leaving godzilla to die, and godzilla feels that him leaving him to die is what got him into becoming a monster. but godzilla still finds him the best human and he doesn't really want to kill however he has to, to punish humanity as a whole for turning him to a freak of nature and shindo wanted and would've prefered that as it would restore his honour.
The scene is, in my opinion, one of the best of the entire Godzilla series. The significance is understandable, yet somehow beyond us. Its a truly owerful moment in the franchise, as it brings the journey of two very different beings to a close. Shindo and his dinosaur savior have met again as changed individuals, and both seem to aknowledge this change in their moment together. The irony of the scene is another key element to its emotional resonance: the dinosaur saved Shindo's life 48 years earlier, allowing Shindo to build his own sucessful business and help to rebuild Japan's economy after world War II. Now Shindo watches as all the prosperity he helped create is destroyed by the very being that allowed him to do so. He knows that he will not live, and fully accepts the ironic nature of his fate. By killing Shindo, Godzilla eliminates any ties to a more innocent past. But does Godzilla even recognize or remember Shindo, or even care that he has taken his life? Only Godzilla and Shindo know for sure, and their moment together is as mysterious as the King of the Monsters himself. Its a scene that nearly makes me cry everytime I see it, even after watching the movie countless times over the last 14 years. I just watched the film recently and had the same reaction during the scene. It is tuly a special moment in Godzilla's history.
"Fantasy is the impossible made probable. Science Fiction is the improbable made possible." -Rod Serling
^We don't exactly know that for certain. Like NPinkham19 said, there's a lot of ambiguity to it. Perhaps Godzilla does remember him, but to what extent?
I think assuming what Godzilla wanted or was thinking is treading a little too far. It's kind of goofy to think Godzilla holds that kind of resentment. What matters is that there was some rooted connection between the monster and the man, for an instance, and in the end it didn't matter. Godzilla's a monster. He's going to stomp whatever he comes across.
I do agree that Shindo may have been asking for death though. I suppose he felt dishonored in some way for leaving the Godzillasaurus behind.
really godzilla knew/recogized shindo because 1. he was going to go skip the building but then stopped and 2. he could've just destroyed the building straight away.
it may sound cheesy but it works thanks to akira ifukube's score, godzilla does remeber shindo, look at 1:55 in the clip and you see close his eyes like he is letting out a tear (that might also sound cheesy), it also shows godzilla's intelligence, i'd rather have a giant monster who rembers the pain he had and the people he saved before his monstrous tansformation than a monster who feels nothing and just destorys because he's angry.
i agree with godzillafan1995 on this the memory he had of that horrible tragedy that nearly killed him as godzillasaurus still was in his mind and he also realized that shindo was there went it happened all them years ago and he got upset about it like godzilla was pretty much blaming shindo for that happening to him
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I'm not saying Godzilla doesn't remember Shindo. I just don't think his memory holds as much resentment and thought as you claim it does. Again, the ambiguity is what sells the scene. People can make all sorts of theories about Godzilla's thought-process here as they want, but I doubt it went too far beyond primal instinct after the memory faded.
Maybe he was just freaked out by the guy staring at him so burned his ass to a crisp.
I remember reading that the scene was meant to show that Godzilla was now a monster, no longer the dinosaur that 'saved him'. I mean, saying the dinosaur saved him is subjective anyway, theres a good chance the dinosaur was just protecting his territory.
True about the subjective "heroism" of the dinosaur, but what you read seems to work thematically. I agree with what they were trying to do if that was the intent.
Yeah me too! I find that scene very touching and sad. I don't get how people can find it funny. Probably one of the most emotional scenes in a G movie I have ever seen IMO.
A fellow fan from another forum, and one of my favorite posters at Monster Zero forums, EBaker, had the most fantastic analyzation of this scene. One I very much agree with. His words:
"I tend to come from the school of thought that, whether intended or not, all art and storytelling reflects something of the creator's worldview. In the case of Oomori's Godzilla screenplays, though, I think there's a lot of thematic material that he's very intentionally weaving in, albeit in sometimes a pretty jumbled form.
Here's how I ended up summarizing my point of view [of the Shindo death scene]:
I see both characters as being presented as honorable in the WWII sequences, and subsequently both becoming extremely powerful (with the literal ability to transform landscapes) - specifically powerful in ways informed by American influence; both being directly associated with nuclear power; and both being things that the Futurians come back in time to stop. Basically, the two faces of Japan's post-war economic growth.
I've always leaned towards a reading of the movie as about the dangers of unchecked nationalism and capitalism, with Japan itself presented as a kind of tragic monster, wielding (economic) power which it cannot itself keep in check. Thus, while neither Shindo nor Godzilla is evil, they both represent aspects of post-war Japanese culture that the movie is critiquing."
Beautifully put and train of thought I'm very much attracted to.
I mean, I don't necessarily think either monster should represent nations, but definitely personality and ideals should affect HOW characters fight, so while I don't agree with the specific themes Ebaker has selected for embodiment......having combatants embody themes of any kind definitely elevates an action scene.
It definitely would help Godzilla 2014 if the monster battles aren't just mindless popcorn brawls in the vein of Pacific Rim (as fun as those are to watch).
But if you think about Luke vs. Vader or Batman vs the Joker....or the shootouts in 'No Country for Old Men'.....in their actual physical confrontations you can see the journey of the characters, and the battles between ideals such as chaos, anger, justice, nihilism, righteous discipline, and peace play out through their fighting style and choice of moves when in combat. Exposition isn't necessary to convey a message in those kinds of fight scenes and it's AWESOME.
If they can figure out some way to get any levels of idealistic transcedance in the Godzilla combat scenes this May, I'll be marvelously impressed and happy :-)
I don't think EBaker is saying that the monsters themselves represent different nationalities. He's saying that both Shindo and Godzilla have grown to become monsters in a post-war world. Both were fairly simplistic and even honorable during the 1944 segment. But much changed in the future.
Shindo has become corrupt. He's harboring nuclear powered subs, building whole cities with unchecked capitalistic values and very much forgetting his honorable roots. Godzilla, once an innocent dinosaur, has become a freak. A creature destin to cause problems with the modern day world and also a product of the post-war: Nuclear power, energy...etc...
Both meet each other again when they've lost their innocence and honor. Present day they meet each other as juggernauts (or monsters) in their respective worlds. But they've changed so much that there is no co-existance. What happens in Godzilla movies is that when monsters meet, they fight to the death and one is victorious. That's what happens here on a different level. Godzilla was, clearly, victorious. Meanwhile Shindo accepts the punishment of death for his unchecked nationalism and capitalism.
MAJOR EDIT***** So I realize now, I may have made a major ignorant ass of myself. This whole time, I had thought by 'Shindo' we were giving an informal name to a monster Godzilla might face in the new 2014 movie (perhaps the centipede monster), and hypothosizing about where these monsters came from, their history together, and how a final battle might play out.
I just now realized, after two long winded posts, that we are actually talking about a scene from Heisei's Godzilla vs King Ghidorah....between Godzilla and a person.......which makes like 75% of what I posted not only off topic, but also kinda nonsensical.
I don't want to delete the post, because it took a lot of thought and a lot of work. But yeah, I feel kinda dumb right now, and I apologize.
The Original Post.....before I figured it out:
Yeah, I would be satisfied with that interpretation. Well merely 'satisfied' is kinda downplaying it. That would be pretty awesome to watch. Two fighters, old rivals, united in respect, but destined to be opponents, and each molded and twisted by the horrors of their past, both having become figurative as well as literal monsters...I could definitely dig it.
If you'll indulge my thematic nitpicking:
I don't know if Shindo would view death as a "punishment" so much as perhaps redemption and honor regained, like a Samurai perhaps.
Where would the distinction of the ideals of the two combatants play out in the choreography of their duel? I know the topic was really only talking about their first stand off, rather than their proceeding fight so I apologize if this is sort of a derailment....but those are the best fights to watch in my opinion, where their philosophy and their ideals shine through in their combat style. The style isn't just there because the director decides it looks cool.
In addition to the examples I listed earlier, another one that came to mind is the final fight from the MMA movie 'Warrior' with Tom Hardy and Joel Edgerton....DEFINITELY worth a watch if you haven't already seen it (the whole movie, not just the fight scenes). The final fight/climax of the movie really epitomizes what I'm talking about....where they are fighting, they aren't talking, but the way they fight....it's a conversation/debate as much as it is a fight between two men.
Maybe Godzilla, representing more an 'excessive growth and dependance on modern technology' could over use his advanced atomic breath attack. While Shindo, maybe having some advanced powers of his own, but wanting to regain the honor of old, willingly chooses not to use his, and sticks to 'hand to hand' combat.
Godzilla could maybe start with the upper hand, but through a newfound tenacity and perserverance, as well as maybe some wisdom/cunning, Shindo finally closes range, and starts beating down on the King of the Monsters. Godzilla then is forced to reach back into a rustic and old school playbook he hasn't been forced to use in years, and the fight balances it out as it returns to the traditional tooth n' claw matchup from when both of them where just 'animals' or 'creatures' instead of Monsters specifically.
Bloodied and weary, Godzilla eventually wins the throwdown, with Shindo having regained his honor, going out admirably, making it all the more tragic that he HAD to die. While Godzilla wins, and walks off back into the 'modern' era, he can't help but have learned from Shindo, and takes some of that honorable traditionalism with him, so that a part of a Shindo now lives in Godzilla, signifying that the past will never truly die.
Or maybe Godzilla's increased respect for Shindo causes Godzilla to turn on the 'modern' which was twisted and formed him so much. In a rage having to have killed Shindo, Godzilla ends the movie with the start of a city rampage instead of a victorious yet melacholoy sunset swim.
I dunno.....just thoughts I guess. It's an interesting topic....way more interesting than I originally thought it was going to be when I first came to the thread, so that's kinda cool.
I thought it was hilarious XD i dont mean to sound cruel it was a cool scene and I understand the emotional aspect of it but i thought it was pretty damn funny
I must confess to being very, very confused when I read that originally. Thanks for sorting that out. At the very least we get a chuckle out of it.
Happy you spent so much time thinking on a seperate topic though.