Debate Week Season 6 Finale! Day 8: Godzilla 2014 vs Queen Legion!Pinned Topic6,316 Views57 RepliesAdd A Reply
This is it, the end of the road! The Grand finale Mothra 2001 vs Ghidorah 2001....What!! Godzilla 2014, and uh....Legion (Dear lord this is even better then the other battle screw that!) Begin!!
Godzilla 2014 was around during when the earth was ten times more radioactive, he hunted mutos for a living. But when the permian impact happend... Wait let me just say this to some people, to some people it is not canon and to some people it is canon, they say in the awakening comic book that he was 12 metres away from the permian impact, and according to the book he was unscathed.
If this is true then that means he has immensly supreme durabillity! After the earths radiation faded he went down underwater to right near the earths core where he could absorb all the radiation there for an eternity. Godzilla 2014 only awakens when there are threats to Earth or the balance.
He has incredible intelligence, even regarded as semi sentient! Godzilla 2014 was able to take multiple beatings from the mutos and it didnt do that much damage. Godzilla 2014s strength is incredible as he was able to easily push back the female muto and knock her down on top of it.
Godzilla 2014's battle strategys are very strategic he decided to step on the female muto and if that danged male wasnt there he could have killed both of them easily.
Godzilla 2014 mainly uses his jaw for battling and his claws for the most part of grabbing and throwing. Godzilla 2014's stamina is questionable, as he was able to swim from the center of the earth to hawaii in less than 12 hours!
However, he did get tired out during his final battle and had to rest for about 5 minutes, probably due to the facts stated above.
Godzilla 2014's semi sentience strikes again when he realizes that the way to kill the male muto was to hit him in mid air, using his tail Godzilla 2014 did so and ended the foul beast.
Godzilla 2014's atomic breath is questionable, we dont know how powerful it really was but from what we saw it does do alot of damage. If we want to use the electrical sack theory, then Godzilla has a electrical sack in his stomach which uses electrical sparks to generate the plasma and radiation in an ionized blast!
But the Mutos were holding it back because they have an EMP which stops everything electrical around them. So Godzilla 2014s sack was short circuiting and not working that well.
But Godzilla was still able to use it but it caused him tremendous pain in his stomach and throat! Godzilla 2014s smarts was also used when he realized the way to kill the female muto was to blast her in her mouth with his atomic breath right on her regenerative organs to the point when the were dead.
Godzilla's Durabillity is also amazing as he was able to take multiple stabs to his throat stomach and he was still reletively unscathed! Godzilla 2014's height ranges, In the book it was 400 feet! but in the movie he was 355 feet! We can use these 2 heights depending on which ones you believe.
Now onto the demonic leader of Legion, the Queen.
Most refer to Godzilla as, "The King" How about we refer to the Queen Legion as, "The Queen." Wait isn't that Mothra's, well forget it.
The Queen Legion is a 140 meter 600 ton giant...Only 600 tons?
Capable of Mach 1 flight and can do a barrel roll at 50 kilometers per hour!
However, this creature is made of a average Silicon shell and skin, which deducts its Durabillity by a lot.
The eye's of the villanious Queen Legion can find Electro Magnetic waves in the world, the Queen's mouth has the abillity to condense Micro waves and turn them into a blue heat beam, which can kill easily.
The Queen Legion can, with extreme tiring force summon a baby Legion out of its mouth known as a, "Butte Legion" This immense creature has enough power to incinerate a Manufacturing factory with 2 blasts! It also is extremely hot as it singed Gamera's hands an put holes in his plated shell.
The Egg chamber of the Queen is a horrible, horrible place to be. This creature can bring forth to this world nearly 100 baby Legion's, which fight tooth and talon to eradicate whatever the Queen has trouble with.
The Queen's hind legs are incredibley powerful weapons, since they use their arms to excavate and dig underneath the earth. Their hind legs can be used as a form of stealth weapon from beneath, a rear kick was so powerful it knocked Gamera out of the sky and pierced his shell.
In full power, Legion can use her crown to eradicate all energy within a blast before it get's to her. This attack worked on Gamera's fire balls, missles. But when Legion is weakened it only slightly halt's, not entirely.
Legion's Plasma beam is by far her best ranged attack, by condensing plasma energy into her mouth it fire's a extremely deadly beam which blew off chunks of Gamera's shell, where does he get the Shell replacements?
This is it, The Debate Week Season 6 finale! I really hope you all have enjoyed this season, lets shoot for 15-20 replies. And hopefully i will see you in Season 7.
Lets go Goji! Oi! Oi! Oi!
I? I am a monument to all of your sins.
This one goes to Legion. Once again, Godzilla '14 just is not that impressive when compared to many other kaiju. Legions entire repertoire of powers completely outclasses Godzilla. Only way Gamera was able to kill her was by throwing the power of the entire planet at her. If her swarm had arrived to protect her, the outcome would have been different. If you add her army into this mix, Godzilla '14 doesn't stand a chance.
I don't know. Let's see....... Godzilla is stronger in terms of durability and physical combat, and his mass greatly exceeds that of the Legion Queen. The swarm might be a problem, but not by as much of a factor as one would think. Godzilla's skin is so durable, the Legion Drones would likely be unable to penetrate it at all, and thus only serve to distract him.
The biggest factor is the various powered abilities of the Legion Queen. She has a powerful blue energy beam from her horns that can decimate entire battalions and blast apart Gamera's shell, an energy barrier that can even resist plasma bursts, and, if her horns are ripped off, additional laser whips that can pierce straight through Gamera's shell.
Overall, though, I'd say it all depends on the range of combat. If Godzilla can get in close, he'll easily overpower and take down the Legion Queen, even with her entourage of Legion Drones being a minor nuisance. But at range, he'll need to move quickly or else be cut down by her energy beams. I'd say that LegendaryGoji could accomplish, given that he's durable as all hell.
He's smart enough to figure out that trying to use his plasma breath in anything but extremely close ranges won't work with that barrier up, and know he's physically capable of tangling with this extraterrestrial arthropod.
Godzilal may have have a chance if he moves fasts enough, and once he gets up close, Legion may fall. Legion has less impressive durability, as she is made of silicon, and also is 600 tons, which is even less than an average Pacific Rim kaiju, which is mainly 6,000 tons. Legion, however, will win if she manages to get Godzilla in long-range. That way, Godzilla will be gone for sure.
On a side note, Godzilla 2014 is quite fast, as you can see he swims pretty quickly
Not just in the water, either, TheOxygenDestroyer'54. He isn't quite a graceful swan on land, but he's overall just as fast as Heisei Godzilla iterations, despite being over 1/3 larger in mass. That, and his given durability is a "monster", even not taking into account the Permian extinction meteor.
Castle Bravo was 15 megatons of nuclear power and atom-ripping energy. Only either a large enough physical opponent like the M.U.T.O.s or extremes of temperature and/or kinetic energy can do some damage to him. That, combined with his decent speed for a creature his size means he could very easily whether the Legion Queen's ranged options long enough to get in close and rip her up.
Legion wins since LegendaryGoji isn't as durable as other Goji incarnation and his Atomic Breath is also isn't as powerful as the previous incarnation.
Therizinosaurus for JW2!
long range Legion wins, close id say 14 would win.
^legion would win both range and close
Therizinosaurus for JW2!
I don't see how the Legion Queen would win up-close, SkeleturtleTheBest Akak Kaijusaurs. She's smaller in overall mass, and her extra digits aren't gonna do much good when you cain't really piece the hide of your opponent in the first place.
Godzilla could easily overpower her, and, due to said durability, isn't gonna be hurt much by anything except possibly her energy attacks, and even those are iffy due to, once again, his incredible durability. At range, she might cut him down, but he could just as easily power through the onslaught and get in close to finish her off. Plus, he's smart.
He'll recognize which parts of her do what, and adjust his combat strategy accordingly to accomodate for that. Her digging/flying prowess might prove a bother, but since she's physically weaker than Godzilla, it's not as much of an advantage as one would think.
LegendaryGoji aka CameraShyGoji wouldn't stand against Legion since he isn't as durable previous Godzilla incarnation(come one MUTO's claw makes him bleed) And Legion survive mana blast(which is stronger that 14goji's atomic breath) for several seconds.
Therizinosaurus for JW2!
Ignore the misspell, the edit is broken in me.
Therizinosaurus for JW2!
Well, Godzilla is larger, smarter, and maybe slightly more durable, but he's outnumbered here. The only way he can win is by holding out until he defeats the baby Legion before moving on to the Queen, who will be a pretty tough fight.
“Banana oil.”- George Takei, Gigantis: The Fire Monster
Legion is more durable(she survive mana blast for several seconds) and bigger than 14goji.
Therizinosaurus for JW2!
"Plus, he's smart."
Someone really needs to explain this to me. Okay, he's smart. I won't dispute it, but compared to other kaiju, even other incarnations, the 2014 Godzilla isn't nearly as "smart" or resourceful. Plus Gamera is arguably far smarter than any Godzilla incarnation (communicating with humans and created to protect them, understanding the damage a Legion flower could do and trying to stop it, attempting to rescue Ayana) and he still got tossed around by Legion-- Needing military help and a high stake trump card to defeat her.
Skeleturtle, where is this hatred for Godzilla 2014 coming from? From the facts stated he should be able to atleast have a chance, but your acting as if he has none.
I don't have hatred for G14, I just don't see him standing up against Legion.
Therizinosaurus for JW2!
Well, Original Gman, it goes something like this. Yes, in a general sense, LegendaryGoji isn't that much smarter than prior iterations. However, we see him learning his enemies' movements and specialties over the course of the movie, and acting on them accordingly, unlike many past monsters.
Biting and tossing the male M.U.T.O. at the shoulder, attacking the female at a crucial moment as her laying eggs, using Ford's distraction to use his plasma breath, the massively powerful tail slam against the male in mid-flight, the shoulder bite into the female's shoulder whilst her attention was trained on Ford, and finally the plasma breath down the throat. Logically, he would do the same after analyzing the various abilities of the Legion Queen.
And I'm not seeing where this argument for lower quality durability is coming from. He survived the atom-ripping power of 15 megatons worth of nuclear force from Castle Bravo, and we don't know for sure if the Mana Beam is exceeds this. It's the energy of the Earth and all that inhabit it itself, which is a bit hard to quantify.
As for the Legion Drones, they'd prove a nuisance, but wouldn't be able to do any real damage to LegendaryGoji, even in their huge numbers, since they probably wouldn't pierce his hide. It's only vulnerable areas like his gills and eyes that would be a problem. And then we have the Queen herself. She isn't too graceful in physical combat, and is most at home blasting her enemies apart, and given LegendaryGoji's penchant for taking damage, she'd better watch out.
I never got the impression that Godzilla was "learning" or "analyzing" anything in the movie. In fact I think that theory is a pretty far reach. If that's the case, every time Godzilla got around a fight with a specific attack, tail whip, bite, etc in the Heisei series is some form of battle analyzation making the Heisei Godzilla a combat genius. But that's never made clear and I don't think it's true. So no, I don't submit to the idea that was happening at all. I see it more as a check list for things Godzilla simply does in battle for the audience to applaud to. There's really no indication that any of that was due to some strategic battle ploy on Godzilla's part.
And if the MUTO can dig into Godzilla's hide in than I don't see how the Legion swarm can't. Aside of people overrating Godzilla's "durability" they're a collective workers-- Not altogether smart, but would certainly pose a threat to Godzilla haulting any "push through" while Legion blasts him.
I think it's plenty clear, OG Gman. It's no mere coincidence that Godzilla came upon the female whilst she was laying her eggs, and he knew that the only way to put her down for good, to stop her regenerative cells, was by using his plasma breath on the inside. Plus, he saw a grand opportunity to perform a tail strike that he didn't get to use beforehand, what with tossing the male a good distance away, and having it circle around for him, giving enough distance to prepare the killing blow.
As for the M.U.T.O. VS nuke question, well, enough actual physical force is always shown as being more effective than sheer kinetic energy. Just because a bomb can't hurt something doesn't mean smacking it with something really really hard won't. I can dig that together, the swarm of Legion Drones pose somewhat of a threat. But given the strength and durability of this Godzilla (remember, the Drones aren't individually too tough), they'll have a hard time doing anything to even get his attention aside from covering his body and maybe poking at his gills and eyes.
Taking all that into account, and given the Legion Queen's lesser frame compared to him, I deduce that LegendaryGoji stands a fairly large chance of defeating her, given that the only attacks that she could do that would be able to truly damage him are surprise attacks from the air/underground, energy blasts, and possibly a swarm of her Drones .The surprise attacks, she hasn't really used too often, the energy blast,s LegendaryGoji can weather enough of, and the swarm will have trouble doing anything significant even together due to his powerful structure.
If it's just Godzilla vs the Queen Godzilla wins, if the swarm is included Legion wins. Funny in the movie how much damage the swarm did to Gamera alone, to the point they focused more on distracting them than attacking the Queen. Big monsters typically don't do well when getting swarmed especially if you'd have the queen there too.
If it's just the queen Godzilla wins, not because he's smart and will adapt, because I don't believe he really did any of that in his fight in his movie but because he's tenacious. Once he seems set on something he'll throw everything he can at it so since he doesn't use his atomic breath much the Queen's shield doesn't matter much here. This comes down to if the Queen's superior offense would outdo G14's superior defense. Since the military did more damage to the queen than I think they've ever done to a Godzilla monster outside the specially created vehicles, I think Godzilla could win this if only facing her. In the whole swarm Legion wrecks him and takes over the planet.
Once again, fanboys overrating the big CGI kaiju. In the film alone, he had been beat. The two MUTOs were pummeling him into paste (and yes, there was obvious signs of blood). Only thing that saved him was a distraction by the military. And him arriving right when the Queen was giving birth? Pure coincidence written conveniently into the script. It's a pretty common narrative trope. He didn't pay any attention to the nest itself. As for him learning... he showed your basic kind of Kaiju thinking I suppose, but really he was just a brawler. Not nearly as smart as other iterations of the creature or even other kaiju like Gamera.
I would agree Legion Queen loses if not for how effective simple military shots were. THe first time she ran into 2 jets she was shot down and lost a wing, never being shown to fly again in the movie, the second time destroying most of the extremities that made her shield. This is pretty low defense wise for a kaiju, granted the MUTOs had a convenient power that stopped this from ever happening to them so we don't know their defense, however G14 did. He took shots from the military at the bridge and while I laugh at the notion people seem to bring that these didn't effect him at all as they clearly did, they definitely didn't have close to the same effect as the missiles used on the Legion Queeen.
The Legion Queen is essentially a glass cannon monster that has a lot of damage but almost no defense outside of that shield that stopped Gamera's fireballs but not missiles so assuming G14 could get through her shots and put up with them enough to get close I think G14 could win this. This is of course in a 1v1 between the two without the swarm, the swarm would decimate him.
I meant to say the Legion Queen wins if not for how effective simple military shots were, but after a year of being broken the edit button still doesn't work.
Wolfguy i truly have no idea where your hatred of Godzilla 2014 came from.
I remember us having battles in the past about this same topic, but when you call us Fanboys as an insult for like the, "CGI Kaiju" is entirely wrong.
TheGman has stated incredible fact's and not to insult you or anything but you have labeled him down as a Godzilla 2014, "Fanboy." I am a proud G14 fanboy but when someone states actual facts you should be a little be respectful of them.
No need to make this seem personal, guys. We're all civilized debaters who have a love for this kind of topic. Don't worry, I'm more than capable of defending myself, GorillaGodzilla, but thanks for the patronage anyways :)
As to Wolfguy's points, they do have some validity. The concentrated fire from the naval fleet did manage to have a small effect on Godzilla. But that was only when they were concentrating their fire directly on his gills, and it took several consecutive hits to achieve even the small amount of damage caused. Sure, Godzilla recoiled more than expected, but he showed no real signs of lasting damage. I've seen it done quite a few times. Military attacks seem to have an effect, but don't really do anything in the end.
It's seen with many monsters from the Gamera trilogy. Gamera has never been actually injured by military ordnance, as well as the Gyaos, Irys, and even the Legion Queen herself. If anything, the Legion Queen showed the most visible effect, but even those were mostly cosmetic damage to weak structural areas like wings and small appendage joints.
Nothing you stated is a fact. Nothing GMAN123 has stated is fact. All of it is nothing but fan theories/fan fiction. "Godzilla's flame disrupted by MUTO EMP attack." "MUTOs have regenerative organs." "The Military focused on Godzilla's gills." Durability... intelligence... Godzilla '14 has had 1 film and 20 minutes of screen time. He was hurt and thrown off course by military missiles, and was nearly beaten to death by the MUTOs. Only thing that saved him was Brody's destruction of the nest.
I have a fan theory too! Oh Oh! What happens when a giant monster rises from the water and only his upper torso is in camera view? Aim for the head! What happens when a human recieves... say... six to seven wasp stings? It's agonizing, but he can still move forward. But what of a hundred? A thousand?
I don't hate Godzilla '14. It's a perfectly average film, and even an average Godzilla film. That IS somewhat of an achievement. Can't touch others like Mothra vs. Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante though.
This is what? The second debate finale to have Godzilla '14 in it, and anytime anyone pops in saying "Hey... there's no proof of him being so powerful" or disputes it, you pop in saying "Hey! Where's the hate coming from? All I state is facts!" But you don't. Even if it's from the novel, that doesn't count as cannon. If we include novels, Mothra is the most powerful kaiju ever since she can exist on an astral plane.
Here's how this battle plays out if there isn't ANY MILITARY INTERVENTION (if we go by the films!!!) - Big ol' bad Godzilla '14 arrives on land, the swarm assaults Godzilla, completely covering him from head to toe, drawing first blood. Godzilla '14 doesn't have any natural defense against such opponents. He can't fly away like Gamera. But the small drones can't quite take him down. The Queen attacks safely from underground with her appendages. Knocks Godzilla aside, and continues to do so, but can't kill him. So she rises and takes to the air. So far, Godzilla doesn't have any real defense against air-bourne opponents except for close range. But Legion Queen can bombarb him from afar with her energy attacks. Even if she has to land to attack, she can just play keep away until he's dead. Gamera could counter this... Godzilla can't.
If this were a film battle, Godzilla would need some McGuffin attack to deal with the Queen. Something he suddenly develops like a final boss weapon, like an extra, long range weapon, or something to deal with the swarm... but from one movie, we can't jude that. You all seem to be able to come up with perfectly good fan explanations for such things, but they're not cannon. You can throw him up against Biollante, Legion, Bagan, but he loses because not much is known about him and his universe.
Space Godzilla vs. Destroyah was actually an excellent debate battle. It's a toss up. This is just like the Godzilla '14 vs. Biollante debate, which is full of what-ifs and fan-fiction just in order to give G'14 a chance.
Wolfguy the series finale for debate week always includes G14. I know there are probably better monsters that could fill the slots but since it's GorillaGodzilla's series that's just how the final will be. Just have fun with it, I know people tend to overrate G14, but then you simply show facts and examples from the movie as we usually do when dealing with the finale. I can't count how many times I've shown how and why G14 books aren't cannon or how he didn't survive a megaton nuke, but it always gets brought up in the next one so you just go with it and prove your point again.
I forgot to throw in there that Godzilla '14 is still far better than the '98 attempt, and a good Godzilla film. But I can't edit my post. Apparently that feature hasn't been fixed for over a year.
And to Durp004 - All I can say to that is, "uuuuuuurgh..." You'd hope for something more original. I guess I could try something. Used to moderate a kaiju wrestling federation.
To be fair to GorillaGodzilla this is the 6th season a lot of the fights were very good and close in the first two, but he's run out of matches and monster combinations, that's why the Gamera monsters got included this time.
As for the G14 always in the final, I don't have a problem with it per se moreso that he's always put against the top tier monster in the Godzilla universe like Destoroyah, King Ghidorah, G92, Biollante, ect. Against more mid tier older monsters the fights might actually be quite close but when but against the series' strongest he just comes up short.