Movie Tournament Rounds 1-5 Archive

(Can't edit my post)

It'd also be interesting to see non-Godzilla Toho films, or even non-Toho films included. I have no idea what your plans are, and considering you're an intelligent guy, I'm sure you've thought about it. But considering the first four battles have been Godzilla-only films, I thought I'd at least bring it up.

@Wolfguy

I see where you're coming from with regard to having the first and original Godzilla film in the tournament but I believe you have to include it and just let it play out. There's no guarantee that the original will win. People's tastes tend to change over time. A movie you might not have enjoyed the first around might seem more likeable after repeated viewings. 

What would be a nice curveball in the tournament is the inclusion of the Americanized version of Godzilla with Raymond Burr. Their like two different films and I've spoken with some g-fans who like the American version very much. 

I enjoy Godzilla, King of the Monsters too. But it's missing alot from the original film and quite a bit is lost in translation. The fact is, objectively, Gojira is the best film of the series. The story, the characters, the actors, the making-of, the effects on pop-culture... it's what started it all. And asking a Godzilla fan to vote against the film that started it all is just rather unfair.

I'd prefer to see the original Mothra or Rodan thrown in, or Gamera trilogy, Gorgo... so on, so on.

"And asking a Godzilla fan to vote against the film that started it all is just rather unfair."

Depending on the movie it's up against, I'd do it.

At the moment, Wolfguy, this bracket only contains Godzilla movies and yes the original will be included. I've thought about future versions of the game and may tinker further with it in a way that previous winners not be included and other Toho or daikaiju or general toku be in it.

But for now, and for those who have yet to enjoy all those other films, it's simple-- Godzilla movies only.

@Gman2887,

You're not telling me that you actually think any film is better than the original japanese masterpiece are you?  Given the fact that it's documentary style realism, the 2 most powerful messages, and it's dark atmosphere can be outclassed. I'd love for this to come up next in your debate unless you got other plans. 

The only other film I can think of, as a whole, that might be better is Mothra vs. Godzilla. So, in a tournament of only Godzilla films with the original included - Spoilers... Gojira wins.

Well, since that's been said people will probably vote against it. But still, now that I know that, there's no real suspence to this anymore.

Wolfguy,

You'd be surprised by how many would vote against it. Stick around, you'll find out for yourself.

And I also know a lot of people are imbeciles.

"The fact is, objectively, Gojira is the best film of the series. The story, the characters, the actors, the making-of, the effects on pop-culture... it's what started it all."

Someone needs to learn the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. While I also find that the original is easily a top 5 movie, I don't think it's the clear cut winner most people make it out to be, things you might find amazing might not impress others and depending what they like in a movie I could very easily see other movies surpassing it.

And those imbeciles may think of you as a jerk, or a jackass. I'm not trying to start a fight or an argument, just be a little bit more respectful to the members here as some of us are a bit older than others. If you have taken me the wrong way with the jerk and jackass statement then I apologize. At the end of the day, we are all Godzilla fans and that's all that matters.

I can be. Definitely. Sometimes I try to be. But eh, I've also stirred up a bit more debate here. Someone has to spark a fire.

I said I might vote against it depending on the movie. I never said I thought there was a better film.

Admittedly, I probably get more enjoyment out of the original movie than a lot of fans, but there are certainly some high calibar movies in the series I prefer and/or watch more often. Not that I'm counting my votes.

In any case I'm more interested in how fans size up one movie with another than I am the winner. That's largely the point of these debate games anyway.

@Wolfguy - I am of the mind that the original is the best also, for a variety of reasons. I would never, though, call anyone out for not liking it or liking anything else more. Sometimes it depends on what your first experience was with that character. For many fans, it may have been Godzilla's Revenge, or Godzilla Vs. Megalon, and by virtue of that being their first taste, it may be their favorite, or the version they identify most with. For a great many fans out there, their first experience with a Godzilla movie was the '98 version. For some, that IS Godzilla, and for others, it was an introduction to a broader, richer, more imaginative world.

My first, by my recollection, was Godzilla KOTM. Gojira is a far better film, but you'll never hear me knock KOTM. Fond memories for me. I still watch it and I still enjoy it.  I have my favorites and some I'm not fond of, and make no apologies for any. There are many I enjoyed as an 8 year old boy, but see differently now. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but it is what it is!

Anyway, Peace!

@Durp - Agreed on your point being one of these not-so-great movies gets to move on while better movies fall by the wayside. Not sure how GMan's picking what goes against what. Maybe he's picking them out of a hat.

I also agree on most of your points about both movies. It just comes down to which one I enjoy watching more (or less!).

I totally get what they were trying to do in GFW. It was really a tribute to 50 years of Godzilla, and his many co-stars, stories, etc. It was just too much, and yet not enough, if that makes any sense. It's just a tough movie for me to sit through, and if I have to labor through it, it's not something I'm going to be in a hurry to watch again. There are some G movies I literally could watch once a week, and that's after having seen them umpteen times!

Anyway, this is a fun competition, and should generate lively debate and discussion.

MOVIE TOURNAMENT ROUND 3 HAS BEGUN.

From votes on twitter and the forum, Godzilla Final Wars stomped Godzilla x Megaguirus, 8 to 3.

Next round:

Godzilla vs. Gigan VS. Godzilla vs. Hedorah

Wow the more names that get dropped the scarier the other side of the bracket looks. I mean almost a 4th of the bracket has been shown and No original, no early showa movies, no Biollante, no GMK, No Destoroyah, no showa Mechagodzilla movies. Jesus this makes me wonder how far my favorites are going to go looking at the fact this quarter is pretty much a cakewalk in terms of quality(of course the last match will probably be amazing and that movies will then skate to the semis untouched from there).

In terms of this match I would say Godzilla vs Gigan every hour of every day of every year. Actually pretty much any Godzilla movie put up against my least favorite movie would get that treatment, but even trying to look at this objectively, besides the gross amount of stock footage Godzilla vs Gigan used it seemed like a better version of Godzilla vs Hedorah, the monster had a cooler, more memorable design, the fight is one of the staple showa fights, it established Anguirus as Gozilla's ally. The only thing I think people take away from Hedorah is the joke of Godzilla flying. 

Godzilla vs Gigan takes this for me.

Godzilla vs Gigan for me. Better script, more entertaining, and a fun movie for the entire family. Hedorah is an ok movie but it isn't that good. Although my nephews love it when Godzilla flies through the air in a chase down on Hedorah, they still find Gigan to be more entertaining. I actually fell asleep while watching Hedorah yesterday, so that's saying something.

I'm going to go with Godzilla vs. Hedorah. I enjoy watching Godzilla vs. Gigan more, but I think that objectively, GvH is a better movie. A lot of fans write it off just because it's so weird and includes the infamous flying scene, but aside from that I think it actually is a really solid entry in the series.

Hedorah is an interesting monster, his various forms all look pretty cool and mostly convincing, and the final battle between the monsters at Mt. Fuji is very well-staged. I also applaud the film's use of disturbing imagery, as it really drives home the message it's trying to send. GvH is one of few films in the series besides the original film that tries to send some sort of message, and one of very few that does it well. The disgusting images of poulluted waters, Hedorah's sludgy and noxious appearance, and the gruesome deaths of his victims really stuck with me after watching the film. And I think telling the story mostly through the eyes of a young child makes it even more powerful. This is one of the only films in the series besides the original that really shows the human toll and devastation of a kaiju attack. Some might say that the film was aimed at children and therefore went too far, but I think that it really wasn't made for child audiences. It was made as a metaphor, just as the original was, but instead of portraying the devatstaion of a nuclear bomb, it showed the damage caused by rampant pollution. I give this film major points for trying to stand for something.

Throw in the better acting, slightly more interesting human characters, better production values and limited stock footage, and I vote for Godzilla vs. Hedorah. Sure it's an unorthodox, bizarre, and psychadelic entry in the series, but those features don't make it any less enjoyable to me. Godzilla vs. Gigan is more fun to watch for me, but I don't consider it the better of the two films. 

Having recently watched all of the Godzilla films again in a marathon, I noticed alot about these two films that I missed before.

One - How good Godzilla vs Hedorah is.

Two - How bad Godzilla vs. Gigan is.

Godzilla vs. Gigan is simply your standard G-film. Human sudstory somewhat keeps you occupided until the monsters arrive. And my second favorite kaiju Anguirus, who stood toe to toe with Godzilla in his second film, was entirely owned.

While Hedorah revealed things to me I'd never noticed and realized before. That film is expertly directed. The only silly out-of-place scene is the infamous flying, and I guarantee that's what most still knock it for. It is one of the truly unique films of Godzilla's legaxy and it should stand out more nowadays considering the continuing battle against pollution and global warming.

Godzilla vs. Hedorah all the way. At least that one had the guts to kill off one of it's annoying main characters at the end Game of Thrones style.

Hmm seemss a lot of people like Hedorah, guess after class later today I'll have to rewatch the movie; not expecting my opinion to change but at least I'll have counterpoints rather than just going off the memory of watching it almost a year ago.

In the battle of movies between

Godzilla vs. Gigan VS. Godzilla vs. Hedorah

I have to vote Hedorah.  It is definetly different, but I really enjoyed that movie.

I just can't stand the later Showa films' use of stock footage. I'd say at least a fourth of the monster action in Godzilla vs. Gigan was taken from Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster and Destroy All Monsters. Hell, even Mothra makes an appearance in Godzilla vs. Gigan because of poor use of stock footage.

I vote for Godzilla vs. Hedorah. It's different and innovative. Hedorah proved to be a very tough opponent for Godzilla, especially with it's ability to change shape. I also enjoyed the use of illustrations in some scenes to demonstrate and drive home the point about pollution.

Godzilla vs. Gigan had it's moments such as Anguirus sacrificing himself in an attempt to help Godzilla who was getting torched by laser beams from the amusement park statue. It was almost heartbreaking to see him go through that buzzsaw on Gigan. Still, I did not like seeing human-sized cockroaches as the alien villains and of course the stock footage. 

I will argue tooth and nail against anyone who says Godzilla vs. Hedorah is a bad film, let alone a bad Godzilla film. Up until the infamous flying scene, it's one of the most focused Showa Godzilla films. If it had simply ended with Godzilla brutally ripping out Hedorah's innards and frying them (which he did), I think it would be more well recieved. I still believe it was Toho for pushing for something superhero-ish, so why not have him fly? He hasn't done that yet! After it was released, Toho loathed it and tried to distance themselves afterall.

That's one of the problems with pitting this film against Gigan. Godzilla vs. Hedorah clearly illustrates the threat of Hedorah. It explains and shows his entire life cycle, demonstrates the destruction he brings as the film progresses, in pretty brutal fashion. Gigan just shows up at the last third of the film, destroys some buildings, is subject to a few stock footage battles, gets tossed around and flies off. But don't worry, his stock footage will be used for Megalon so you'll see him again!

Oh rest assured once I put this DVD on and rewatch it I will be willing to have that argument since unless I see some huge epiphany I doubt my opinion of Godzilla vs Hedorah being the worst Godzilla movie will change much.

I have to admit that reading the responses for this tournament makes me want to go check out these films more closely. I see some things that I never picked up before or at least don't remember seeing, such as a shot of Mothra in stock footage for Gigan as Wolfguy mentioned. That's funny. 

That flying scene isn't so bad when looked through the lens of a kid watching the film. When I was a kid watching it for the first time I thought it looked cool and yes, superheroish. I'm not sure though that it's the lowest point or most embarrassing in all Godzilla films. Playing tennis with Ebirah might be worse. 

Well having finished I have a lot to say.

1. Yes Godzilla vs Hedorah had a message but it hammered it in so much it became old. Oh polluting is bad let's show these amazing visuals to show that. Oh that's not enough, let's have the characters talk about pollution being bad. I stilll don't think that's enough though so let's also play a song about not polluting 3 different times throughout the movie while also showing visuals and having people talk about it. There's something called subtlety and this movie seemed to forget that.

2. Hedorah as a monster is not only explained, but explained to an insane extent. Sure it's good to give context and maybe some background but we know exactly what part of what galaxy it came from what it's cell structure is. I mean once again be vague you don't need to tell me everything especially when some things that I learned never came up again. 

3. The characters. Dear god the characters. Like I said through my review the professor spent most of the time in bed bandaged up and after trying to figure out how to kill the monster the child suggested a way that we figured out worked roughly 20 minutes into the movie when the original tadpole dried out. That's all you needed but up till and after that point he did nothing, while the movie tried to make it look like he did. Then there were the other characters which really aren't worth mentioning besides him since none did anything except for the child who was basically there to tell you if Godzilla was coming. 

4. The transitions. I'm sorry but this is more an artistic aspect that I cannot stand. Sure I can see how some people might like it since it's original but dear god did it annoy me.

5. This Godzilla spent more time making poses and waving his arms than actually fighting he literally had a 2 minute stand off with Hedorah before the end fight that consisted of him flailing his arms while he walked around and rubbed his nose.

6. The movie is pretty bypolar with it's pollution message literally right after they say Hedorah came ashore and listed the casualty rate you see 3 characters on a rollercoaster since it was sunny and no way could Hedorah be out then. The range of the fumes in it's flying form was pretty much just for convenience sake the mom is standing in front of a school when it flies over and all the girls in the class start choking but she was fine, the son was down the street when those people turned to skeletons(something the girls didn't do) and the professor was in a house that the roof got torn off and fish killed while he sat there and watched. 

Gigan may not be a perfect movie, actually far from it, but at least the characters did things. I think I said in my review of the movie that it brought nothing new to the table but did everything it had well enough it didn't really need to.

Again, I don't count my own votes or anything, but to weigh in I largely agree with Durp on his points. Most of them anyway. The message is hamfisted, half of Godzilla's battles are Super Sentai poses and the characters are borderline entirely useless and uninteresting. (Sans Ken for his unexplainable ESP-like relationship with Godzilla.)

That said, Hedorah squeaks by for me in that it's stylistcally different from most Godzilla films. The series needed a shake-up and whether one liked what Banno did with it or not there's no denying it's a very different Godzilla film.

The wonky Godzilla poses (including his hilariously awesome take-off) and artsy transitions with the psychedellic influences make the entire movie very surreal. I think the in-yo-face message works largely because the rest of the movie has such an in-yo-face style. It values over-the-top exposition and visuals in favor of traditional storytelling. It's sort of experimental in that way.

Does it make it perfect? Far from it. But I'm in the camp that it probably does more right than wrong-- And largely for the reasons Durp dislikes it.

Oh, I'm very much aware this is a stylistic film and I think I say in my review you can go both ways with it. That being said, the posts supporting it should just acknowledge that they vote for it due to the fact they like that style and originality it brings and not paint the picture that this movie is a secret gem. If the next battle is Gojira vs Godzilla vs Destoroyah I'll vote for Destoroyah, but I'm not going to pretend it is a completely better movie and play it off as the best, I'll just go off of preference. Some of the statements like "one of few films in the series besides the original film that tries to send some sort of message, and one of very few that does it well." and  "slightly more interesting human characters" are really grasping for straws here when comparing it with it's competition. Come on guys this is opinion based anyway no need to try to validate it with things that aren't there. 

As a side note I don't think the flying scene is that big a deal when critiquing this movie, honestly if I were to list the top ten things I have a problem with in this movie the flying scene wouldn't even make it on there. It seems overblown for both sides, people shouldn't crucify the movie for it, but on the same note it's not like if you took that scene out the movie would be so much different and received well, as I said Godzilla spends most of the movie flailing his arms and striking poses the flying scen might have been some culmination of all that but it was present throughout the movie.

^ So just because I like the film and you don't, if I find anything positive with it I'm "grasping for straws" and finding "things that aren't there?" I know you absolutely despise the film, but that doesn't mean that other viewers can't find positive things with it. You said it yourself, it is entirely opinion-based, so my opinion means just as yours and everyone else's.

It is in fact one of the few movies besides the original that has a message, and handles it relatively well. Not as well as the original, but far far better than Godzilla vs. Mothra. All the humans do in that movie is talk about how "humanity is destroying the Earth" and how "we need to protect the Earth," even though it hardly has anything to do with the plot of the film. The human characters in Hedorah are slightly more interesting than the ones in Gigan, largely because they can be taken mostly seriously and play a role in creating the device that destroys Hedorah in the end. The characters in Gigan are fun, but I personally think the characters in the previous film are better-developed and are more relevant to the larger plot.