Movie Tournament Rounds 6-8 Archive4,995 Views68 RepliesAdd A Reply
In order to keep the tournament invigorated and on the radar, I've decided to seperate however many threads necessary to keep the replies up. (Round 5's response was rather sad, with twitter completely outpacing the forum.)
Good choice. I'm going with Godzilla vs. Destroyah. It's emotional, it's dramatic, it's saddening. Although Godzilla 2014 has the upper hand with the special effects, Godzilla vs. Destroyah has much more of a traditional way to imply the tokusatsu ways. Although Godzilla vs. Destroyah was scheduled to be the last film, it had a meaningful message.
Godzilla 2014 was a serious film and had a good story, the fact that Bryan Cranston and another great actor was killed off so early in the film, it took away some of the better acting on the characters that were left to carry on the film. Godzilla was like the heisei Godzilla as being an anti hero, the cut scenes was what hurt the film severely.
Godzilla vs. Destroyah has much more of a solid story to go with it, it also shows the connection to the original Godzilla film that started it all. Plus master mind music composer Akira Ifukube returned for what was supposed to be Godzillas final outting. Koichi Kawakita did okay with the special effects, I blame his drinking problem he developed after Biollante didn't succeed to well at the box office.
Most of the music isn't to memorable in Godzilla 2014, and I didn't like the tease of Godzilla. It felt like jaws all over again.
Anyway, Godzilla vs. Destroyah has my vote.
Now, I'm definitely not a huge fan of the G'14 film, but my vote has to go to it.
I personally find the later Heisei films to simply be dull and rather on the dumb side, especially Godzilla vs. Destroyah. While the storyline itself isn't terrible, I find Destroyah to be a terrible and highly overrated monster. I mean, the suits in the film are so bulky and stiff that all they can do when "fighting" is clumsily bump into each other. There also wasn't any engagement with the human story. While Ford Brody wasn't any shining star, we still had Cranston for a while. Both the Mutos and Destroyah were very unoriginal in terms of design, the Mutos simply had more personality to me. Plus, and it's a minor nitpick, Destroyah had the most annoying roar since Minya's squealing. Sounded like a slightly altered Jim Carrey's "Most Annoying Sound in the World" from Dumb and Dumber.
^Hallelujah Wolfguy chose Godzilla 2014, it must be the end of the world.
Godzilla vs Destoroyah was an incredible film, but its execution was kind of boring besides the final battle with Destoroyah and Burning G.
Godzilla 2014 does not exceed it that much, but i believe was a better executed film for what it was going for.
Lol. If the both of you feel like you can do better in walking around in a 100 plus pound suit then be my guest. Godzilla vs. Destroyah has its flaws, but, it didn't have the many cut scenes as Godzilla 2014 did. Godzilla 2014 is a good film. With Aaron Taylor Johnson though, his stiff, unemotional character in my opinion didn't help the movie either.
Godzilla 2014 has many flaws. The suspenseful build up was great. However, when it comes to monster films, the audience wants good old fashioned knock out money shots. People love Pacific rim for this particular reason. Even Gamera guardian of the universe, which is still just 1 of the greatest kaiju films to date.
Godzilla vs. Destroyah, the characters in it didn't showcase unemotional, stiff acting. Although Miki Segusa for the most part in the heisei films just had to look at the camera and say Godzilla. However, in vs. Destroyah, she did help with that emotional, saddening scenes. Especially when Godzilla jr. died.
When Godzilla 2014 came out, I loved it. As the months and year went by, my taste for it dropped. The Mutos were cool. Destroyah though as overrated as it may be, is in my opinion, much better than the Mutos.
Godzilla vs. Destroyah actually in my honesty, is probably the 3rd best heisei film. While Godzilla 2014 is just a new beginning in Godzillas chapter.
I think both of these are very good entries in the series, each with their own strengths and flaws. I think they're both good enough to advance to the next round, but since only one can, I'll go with Godzilla vs. Destoroyah.
GvD brings the Heisei series full circle, and also brings back what was good about the first few entires of the Heisei series. The human characters are average, although Miki Saegusa definitely becomes a more emotional and important character later in this film. The allusions and callbacks to the original film are a nice touch, though they only really occur towards the beginning. The monster sequences are all very well-done. Kawakita chose to shy away from the overreliance on beams of the last few films and delivers some nice brutal physical fighting. The battle between Destoroyah and Junior is a highlight, and the final battle between Godzilla and Destoroyah is impressive as well. Despite the ridiculous size and heft of the Destoroyah suit, the battle still manages to be physical and feature a solid range of motion from both combatants. The Destoroyah suit itself is a great design, embodying pure chaotic evil, a trait I feel was missing since the Showa King Ghidorah. Destoroyah is a truly sadistic unsympathetic monster, and his bizarre roar that sounds like shrill mocking laughter makes him all the more memorably evil.
One cannot ignore the very emotional close to the film either. Godzilla's death is of course the highlight of the film and is spectacularly rendered, but I feel a greater impact from Junior's death. Godzilla's reaction and the slow, mournful rendition of Godzilla Junior's theme playing make the scene emotionally devastating, even the human characters feel sympathy for Godzilla. And on that note, I have to say that Akira Ifukube's score for the film is easily one of his best. The Super X3 theme is one of his best military marches, Godzilla Junior's theme is truly touching to hear, and the "Requiem" piece that plays during Godzilla's death combines many different pieces of music, including Godzilla's theme very subtlely at the end, to be one of the most powerful pieces in any of the composer's many excellent scores.
Godzilla 2014 is a very good film as well. It takes itself seriously throughout, something refreshing for a modern Hollywood monster film, the acting is competent all-around, and the monster scenes are very rewarding. The final battle is unique in featuring very truly animalistic fighting, with an incredibly haunting and beautiful backdrop. I really do applaud the film's cinematography. It conveys the destruction very thoughtfully, and I think it matches some of the best "destruction ****" that Hollywood has to offer. The film's biggest downfall is just the characters. None of them are particularly unlikable, but they're just pretty generic and wooden, save for Cranston's excellent but minor role in the film. Ford Brody is one of the flattest and least engaging leads I've seen in a while, and although Johnson's acting is fine, he does nothing to make the character, who I feel was poorly-written to begin with, any more exciting. I like how the film chose to focus on the humans overwhelmingly more than the monster action, but to do it effectively it needed a more engaging human cast, something I hope is accomplished in the sequel(s).
So overall, both are some of the better (but not best) entries in the franchise, and both understandably have large fan followings. I give the edge to Godzilla vs. Destoroyah because I feel it is all-around the better film for what it is.
"When man falls into conflict with nature, monsters are born." - Professor Hayashida, The Return of Godzilla
Godzilla vs Destoroyah.
Godzilla is the centerpiece of this movie with everything happening around him and for him. G14 it seemed like Godzilla was used as a sidepiece similar to late showa with the evil monsters dicating the movie and Godzilla just showing up to fight and beat them. The characters are better overall in GvD since G14 went with as few characters as possible: one is a destination point, one is for exposition, one if only in the movie for 30 minutes and the main character never interacts with anyone outside that 30 minutes to show his character and doesn't seem to grow or change at all.
G14 may have been effects but looking at the timeframe and budget each movie had this is pretty negligible aspect to compare them at least without taking that difference into account.
Wow, one of my least favorite Heisei films against the biggest case of bait and switch in recent memory! Hmm, where to begin...
My main problem with Destoroyah is the antagonist itself. I hate the bulky unimaginative design of Destoroyah, as well as the Aliens rip-off scene with the juvenile Destoroyah creatures. Also, the Godzilla design by this point had gotten bulky to the point of silliness. I liked the burning feral look they gave him however. The movie on the whole though is just not one of my favorites, although I have to admit to getting emotional at the end, and seeing the baby rejuvenated is extremely cool.
The problems with G 14 are legendary (pun intended). Godzilla is pretty damn cool in the movie, but he's such a non factor from a viewer's standpoint. He does very little (that we get to see). In fact, none of the three creatures do much we actually get to see! There's a lot of aftermath and insinuation of cool things that went down. It's a movie that has a bit of suspense, but there is little payoff that comes at the end of that suspense, and once you know what is coming, this movie does not hold up well with repeated viewings at all. Simply put, it's dull, and GVsD at least is entertaining, and is a Godzilla movie. I would watch Pacific Rim over G 14 any day of the week. A vastly superior and fun giant monster movie. Still blows my mind how little money it made here.
And Huge Ben, never ever compare G 14 to Jaws! One is an average monster movie and the other is one of the greatest movies ever made. No comparisons please to Jaws, Alien or JP, because there is none.
Anyway, we delivered the bomb, and oh, Godzilla Vs. Destoroyah is my pick.
Koldwarkid62, The day I take orders from you is the day hell freezes over. I'll compare movie to movie as I damn well please.
@Huge-Ben - Easy there big guy! It's just that I've heard G 14 compared to Jaws and the aforementioned movies SO many times it makes my blood boil, and I don't consider G 14 to be in a class any with any of those movies, and the comparisons people try to make are like comparing apples to oranges, imho. Aside from the fact that Jaws, although at it's core is a B monster movie, also happens to be one of my all-time favorites.
So, you certainly can compare whatever movies you choose. If I think you're off your rocker I'll call you on it. And I would expect the same Sir from you, because I know we're not always going to agree.
Peace, and no hard feelings.
@Huge-Ben - and I'm not trying to give you orders my friend; more of a rhetorical reply in my statement there.
I believe you have a child and perhaps are married as well. If so, I'm sure there are more than enough orders that'll be coming from those two! ;)
I'm curious how G2014 would have done had this come out extremely close to it's release. I mean it could go far, but not counting the twitter vote it's currently losing here and even if it does get through I don't think it has much chance against Biollante, unless of course the twitter vote just throws a massive upset. That being said though, I think there would have been a much better chance for it to beat both Destoroyah and Biollante had this come out with its release. While I never thought the movies was the best one as many did before the movie even came out, and closely after I will admit after coming out of the theater opening night I though it might make 11 or 12 for me. I know from this forum at least the hype around the movie before it came out was insane. The amount of people saying this would be the best and how bryan cranston would be the best Godzilla character ever or their favorite based off trailers was blowing my mind. Even afterwards there was a big fanbase here defending it, I being one of them, although to a lesser extent as after my second viewing even I saw things that brought it down for me.
Point being if this debate dropped May 18th 2014 chances are G14 would probably have made it to the Quarter finals, maybe even semis. Fun to see how perspectives change as the movies grow, due to my age and the internet availablility the only big polarizing Gmovies I've got to see reactions for are pretty much G2000, Final Wars and G14
I guess I owe you an apology. As for my family, you have a PM.
@Durp004 - Yes, I would agree that G 14 probably would have more support closer to it's release. I never loved it, but I certainly liked it when I saw it in the theater, although I like it less having seen it 3-4 times since buying it. I think a little tweaking to appease fans who wanted a bit more of the Big Guy would have gone a long way, certainly for this fan.
@Huge-Ben - no apologies needed, and I didn't mean anything derogatory towards the fam, just the funny nature of spouses and kids in general, of which I'm all too familiar, but certainly point taken. I will PM for anything off topic.
I don't think there needed to be more Godzilla necessarily. The problem was the trailers made it seem like Godzilla(and bryan cranston for that matter) were big players in this movie. Cuts of dialogue and scenes shown to try to make you interpret that Godzilla was the one they were talking about. There were 2 scenes that really make me mad about the advertising. The first was the teaser with the halo jump showing them drop down into a destroyed city with just Godzilla looming about. This obviously shows him to be this monster who is destroying everything. The second and worst offender in my opinion was the trailer that ran up to the movies release with Godzilla alone roaring at the closing bay doors. This of course sends the message people are running and escaping from him, but when the movie came out that scene wasn't there instead replaced with him engaging the Muto which is fine, but not when I literally just saw a trailer of that scene with him alone. Overall the movies greatest downfall was the trailers and expectations they laid down. If someone didn't ever see a trailer for the movie I think certain things wouldn't have bothered them as much as it did those of us who watched and studied every trailer that we saw.
The true problem I believe is the characters. I mean these were the people that should be carrying your movie and they didn't. Godzilla vs Destoroyah had a lot of characters, and because of that a lot weren't explored to the point they could have been but were interesting when they did show up. Kenichi is a good example the grandson of Yamane who has studied godzilla all his life. He is there to explain things and actually has merit to what he says due to him studying the monster for so long. In contrast G14 gives us Serizawa who despite watching the muto cocoon and knowing about the original Godzilla bombings seems to have no idea what is going on, and believes Godzilla is there to restore balance with really no evidence or reasoning behind it. The last time he saw the monster it was bombed then 70 years later it shows up and he just assumes after it floods Hawaii that the monster is there to restore balance. I mean for god sakes Joe brody did his research out of a small apartment and he knew more about what was going on with these monsters than the person in charge of the organization that was monitoring them. Then there's Elle who does nothing ever but be a destination point along with the son. When she showed up at the end there wasn't any reason not to believe she would make it since we see her run into the shelter with everyone else. Now if she was actually taking care of patients in a hospital, which is what she stayed there for, and the hospital got rocked by one of the monsters maybe there would be some anticipation but she was fine and there was never anything there to make me think she wasnt.
Ford is just boring. I don't know if it's due to Aaron Tayloy-Johnson's acting or the script. I think there was a little of both. He's faced with a monster that killed him mother, drew his father borderline insane, and caused a strained relationship between them only for his to figure out he was right all along right before he too dies and what does he do? Well nothing. Even when faced with the monsters there didn't seem any anger, any need for vengence, just carrying on his day. Even when he destroyed the nest I didn't ever get that he did that to get payback, he did it because it was the common sense thing to do and for some reason no other soldier had a problem with 100s of mutos running around.
More than lack of monsters I have to fault G2014 for the characters, so many missed chances and the one person who delivered gets killed off with no one there to replace him. I don't think Destoroyah had great characters but at least there were a lot they had to fit in, G14 went with so few and still didn't bring much to them.
It's funny, because I find both Godzilla '14 and Godzilla vs. Destoroyah to be very similar films. One of the reasons I love them being pitted against each other is because they're both extremely flawed little gems that have a massive fan following and tend to be overrated.
If anything I put both movies around the same tier. But I agree that had this game come out closer to the release of the 2014 film it would be blowing everything out. The fact is the honeymoon period for the 2014 movie is over. People are down from their high on it and can see the flaws for what they are.
@Durp004 - I agree pretty much with everything you said. As I saw it, the film suffered from three main problems:
The film that was marketed and sold to us was very different than the final product.
The characters (on the whole), were pretty boring and useless. I think most people are in agreement about Cranston's character as well.
I could forgive to a large degree the first two points if Godzilla was more of a factor in his own movie, and if there had been just a couple more "wow" moments featuring him, I could see the movie in a decidedly different light. But you combine all of these elements into the package and it's a major letdown. A head scatcher for me is tha amount of talent that was in this movie and how little they did or had to work with; most were dull cookie cutter characters, with the lead being the worst offender. You're totally right about his lack of any kind of emotion to any stimuli; I'm certain Ford was part Vulcan! Also, and this probably should have been a red flag, was how many writers they had on the project and the fact that one (Darabont I believe) was writing almost until they started filming. Mind you this movie was announced in 2010, and was originally supposed to come out in 2012, so it's not like things should have been rushed.
Now, had the characters been better and the story moved along more briskly between any monster action, it would be better, but I still think it would have been a letdown. There just aren't many Godzilla moments that stand out to me in a movie called "Godzilla". He makes a few great entrances that go nowhere! There's the airport, the GG Bridge, and when he engages the male Muto before the doors close. Don't blink, 'cause you'll miss them!
Then there's the quietest giant monster battle ever put on film, which is shrouded in darkness and dust and constantly cut away from to see what our intrepid heroes and fascinating lead are up to.
Anyway, just a letdown for me. I'm looking forward to Toho's next year, and I hope Edwards can bring it come 2018. We'll see.
Now, I haven't seen Jurassic World yet. It's been pretty much unanimously praised as a fun summer movie. Reviews have been great. My step-daughter and older son saw it and loved it. I've read comments from some viewers that said this is what Godzilla should have been.
You and I have discussed this brutally in the past about Godzilla 2014. I think we both agree that with the misleading trailers, we didn't get really what we were expecting. That SDCC movie, ha-ho that is still out there somewhere. Not to mention I think when people in theaters seen the trailers while watching other movies, they too were expecting monumental. I like Godzilla 2014 for it's late 70's style. However, we really didn't get those great monster battles like the early 60's films and like Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla 74' and terror of mechagodzilla 75' had.
I really hope that Gareth Edwards steps it up. Especially Borenstein!
I've only cried in one film and that was Godzilla vs destroyah
^So... is that a vote for Destoroyah?
^I think a tear rolled down my cheek when I saw the 2012 SDCC teaser. Somebody make that movie please!!
@ Huge-Ben - Yes, you and I do agree on many things Godzilla, and this being one of them.
I vote Godzilla 2014, it may not have beejn what EVERYONE was expecting, but its still a great Godzilla movie. Before anyone counter-argues, be sure to take a good long look at the pic and be thankful that it wasnt that.
I just want to address that sentiment since any movie series that has a bad or ill received movie makes people judge future versions based on it, and act like by simply not being that movie they accomplished something.
First let me say this is true G2014 wasnt the 98 movies , it was better, but funny thing is so was EVERY Godzilla movie. Are we going to pat them on the back for the sake of not being the worst? Gojira wasn't the 98 movie, King Kong vs Godzilla wasn't the 98 movie, Mothra vs Godzilla wasn't the 98 movie and most important of all in this sense Godzilla vs Destoroyah wasn't the 98 movie. No one is complimenting those movies on that fact, or any other toho movies for that matter. We expect them to be better, so when one is no one bats an eyelash to it, but people try to act like the fact G2014 being better has some weight to it when judging it. When I watched any movie but G2000 which came out the next year I never thought to myself "well it's better than the 98 movies at least" and the only reason I thought that for G2000 was due to how close the movies were released.
The difference between the two is Godzilla vs Destoroyah came out before the 98 movie. It didn't need this big not to do list no know how not to mess up it just did it. It was also the last movie to come out before the 98 one so why aren't we celebrating a movie who did better than a movie that came out years after it. Instead we look at the one that came out 16 years later and act like it really raised the bar by not being that bad.
If when you walked out of G2014 the only thing that crossed your mind was how it wasn't as bad as the 98 movie that's like saying, "well in this race I didn't place high enough to get a medal, or even do well at that but at least I wasn't the very last person who finished."
GMAN2887 - Oh, gosh; this is going to be complex. Both of the films you have presented entertained me and let me down to a certain degree. Godzilla vs. Destoroyah was a fun film that seemed to try (in my opinion) overly hard to elicit an emotional response from its viewers. Edwards' Godzilla is quite the same in that regard. I suppose I must base my decision on which film engaged me most of all. Hmm...I shall cast my vote tentatively in favor of Edwards' Godzilla. The reason behind this decision is simple - and one for which I am somewhat ashamed. Edwards' Godzilla was visually more appealing. I find my answer to leave a taste of sour uncertainty; but it is the one to which my mind goes after much mental debate. :)
@Something Real - You don't have to apologize for liking/not liking something or even why you did/didn't. Totally subjective thing. It really comes down to what you got out of it and was it a good experience for you.
@Durp004 - Completely agree. From everything I saw well beforehand and the direction the filmmakers seemed to be going, it was a foregone conclusion to me that G 14 was going to be better (and closer to source), than '98. Other than that I knew I would judge it on its own merits.
My opinion is strictly based on my takeaway from it immediately after the credits rolled in the theater and subsequently the 3-4 times I watched it at home on Blu-Ray. So really what did that movie do for me as a self-contained piece of entertainment, and as a Godzilla movie?
Koldwarkid62, to be honest I'm trying to stay out of this debate as Godzilla vs Destoroyah is my all time favorite Godzilla movie and while I notice the faults it has I still think I'd rate it higher than most, so with the bias goggles this heavy I'm trying not to call people out for liking G14 too much, but when Shazothehedgehog basically said it was better and to anyone that had counterpoints brought up the 98 movie that struck a small nerve. No other movie gets that out as much as G14 so if you're only point for why someone should like it is that, well needless to say you essentially made a case for why G2014 is the 29th best movie in the series, but in no way differentiated it from any other movie who also shares the status of "not being the 98 movie."
KOLDWARKID62 - Thank you. Your understanding in this matter is greatly appreciated. :)
DURP004 - I understand and respect your feeling on this topic. It is always difficult to objectively look upon something for which we have strong, positive feelings. The fact that you are capable of doing so to any degree speaks highly of your personal control and mental discipline. :)
Despite it's flaws I vote for Godzilla 2014. The tone behind Godzilla 2014 seems more optimistic than G vs. Destroyah. Perhaps I feel this way because I have hope that the legendary franchise will get better with the next film. I like G vs. Destroyah but found a few things disappointing. As I watched the movie I already knew from the build-up to it that Godzilla would die in it which took some suspense away. There was another psychic character in the film alongside Miki that I found annoying and unnecessary. It almost seemed as if Toho had plans to spin off Godzilla Junior into another series but with this character instead of Miki.
There were flaws with the special effects and editing which again was just lazy. The scene where the aggregate Destroyah's were engaged with the military right before they combine to form one giant creature that goes on to face Junior shows how bad the editing and effects were.
I still like Destroyah but the grim tone, sad end, and some issues with the effects took away from it.
ROUND 7 HAS BEGUN:
The previous round saw Godzilla vs. Destoroyah take Godzilla '14 12 to 7 based on forum and twitter votes.
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah for me. The time travel is great. Although, the special effects aren't nearly as good to king kong vs. Godzilla, the movie is a little bit more serious. It's got my favorite Godzilla design, the 91 ghidogoji suit.
King Kong vs. Godzilla, has a more comedy style to the film. The battle between king kong and Godzilla is funny at moments. However, king kong vs. Godzilla has better characters and acting. The thing that kills me is Miki segusa saying Godzilla in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah. The battle between Godzilla and Ghidorah is very animalistic. The same can be said though for king kong but, it was a bit more WWE style.
All in all, I respect both films. I think I'll go with Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah.