This thread will act as a debate platform for fans to discuss the differences and competition between Legendary's Godzilla and Toho's Shin-Gojira from Godzilla Resurgence.
We can separate the debate into 3 main categories:
Design and Concept
Which Godzilla has the better design? Which influential concepts did the King of the Monsters the most justice?
Abilities in a Fight
If the two Godzillas ever met and engaged in combat. Which one is more powerful? How would that battle play out?
Film Style and Quality
Keeping in mind both are completely different styles of film, this category is likely to spark some diverse opinions. Those debating this category should be familiar with both film's backgrounds and messages.
Regarding Godzilla Resurgence, many debate points will need to wait until new footage and/or the film is released. As right now, we don't know much about Shin-Goji's abilities and film style. For now however, the design is open for comparison and debate.
Let them fight...
These posts seem to paint legendary as this unstoppable monster, let's clear something up Awakening is still heavily disputed as to how "canon" it is. If this Godzilla was feet away from a meteor that wiped out basically all life on earth then he should have had a walk in the park going through the military, and mutos. A building by any stretch of the imagination would be hardly felt. Also the movie specifically has a line saying he got attacked by kiloton nukes. A specific line they go out of their way to establish within this universe solely for the reason of specifying the bombs were never megaton.
Not saying Shin would win, but this is much closer to a 50/50 fight than some are pretending.
I also want to make this clear. I love the Legendary Godzilla, Im very excited to see the sequels. He is a force to be reckoned with. Just stating what I saw in both films as terms of power and ability. Legendary is a like a football player, he can move and run you over. While Shin is like the Bruce Lee of Godzilla's, he doesn't need to hit you with his whole body to hurt you and take you out. Shin only needs one good shot at you with any of its abilities and then your out. I know somebody is going to call me out on the Bruce Lee comment. Im just trying to make this humorous, calm down.
"Not saying Shin would win, but this is much closer to a 50/50 fight than some are pretending."
Pretty much this.
Everyone seems to be forgetting Shin Godzilla's rapid colonization. Even if Shin is blown to pieces, those pieces each can regenerate into a whole new Godzilla. 50/50? I think not.
Everyone seems to forget that Shin goes catatonic whenever he uses his atomic breath. Plus in the movie, and comic it's extremely well known that Legendary Pictures Godzilla tanked 15 Megaton Hydrogen Bomb called Castle Bravo. Let's not pretend that's the same as Bunker Buster Bombs.
Plus Shin needs radiation to even function. All Legendary Godzilla needs to do is be near Shin Godzilla, and he would get stronger from all the radiation that leaks out of Shin. I mean It's been established that Legendary gets his radiation from thermal vents from the earths core. He was built to absorb radiation. Shin would go catatonic way faster before he would even notice he was losing radiation, or even be aware that there's a threat in the area, because he isn't to bright. He only reacts when his in danger. That's the same as a frog in boiling water. I love the comment that Shin destroyed a entire city. Big deal. .. Shin also took a two week recharge period. Legendary Godzilla chased the MUTO'S for days while dealing with the military, and fighting the male on several occasions. Later fought both male, and female for a entire day before collapsing after beating them. You seriously can't compare that. Especially when Legendary could destroy a entire city without needing a rest period. Granted it wouldn't be as fast. It still wouldn't matter because the human race wouldn't be able to do a thing. Unlike Shin who lost to humans.
Plus the parasitic MUTO's have whipped out the Godzilla species. Not a easy thing to do I imagine. You guy's give way to little credit to a monster that evolved to kill the King of the Monsters.
And yes the books are canon. You can literally see all the interviews that basically confirme this, and the film Kong Skull Island using some of the stuff in Awakening. Plus General Macarthur is a character from the graphic novel. He was added to the Monarch Timeline... That alone should tell you how much Awakening is the official prequel to the 2014 Godzilla.
^Not true. The books being canon are wildly in dispute at best, contradictory at worst.
I'll repeat and add some to my comment.
Yes the book's are canon. You can literally see all the interviews that basically confirme this, and the film Kong Skull Island using some of the stuff in Awakening. Plus General Macarthur is a character from the graphic novel. He was added to the Monarch Timeline... That alone should tell you how much Awakening is the official prequel to the 2014 Godzilla.
Some of the inconsistencies from Awakening & 2014 film can be solved by simply remembering that Monarch is a secret organization that won't reveal the entire truth about Giant Monsters owning this earth. What they told to Ford was a cover story that simply only involved the Monsters in question, and keep everything else under wraps. Especially when you take a look at there timeline. They have been keeping track of MUTO'S throughout the years, and even contain some.
Repeating it doesn't make it true. And if we're going by the timeline, why don't the timeline events reference the battle Godzilla had? Or the event in general? Seems like a big event to gloss over.
Until said by an official filmmaker or referenced officially in the films, it is not confirmed canon.
1954 Monarch Goes Global
As the age of the atom bomb dawns, Monarch, a multinational coalition of scientists leading covert missions to understanding of M.U.T.O.S. authorized unofficially and overseen by General Macarthur, ( ) flotilla under the guise of "Nuclear( ) weapons across the Bikini Atoll in they were not test. They were trying to kill it.
^ All that is pretty substantial evidence. Legendary Pictures & Gareth Edwards, plus the writer for the 2014 Godzilla film saying that Awakening is the official prequel to Godzilla 2014. Meaning canon.
Plus in the movie, and comic it's extremely well known that Legendary Pictures Godzilla tanked 15 Megaton Hydrogen Bomb called Castle Bravo.
Except when there was that scene specifically pointing out they used a kiloton nuke. A whole conversation just to prove you wrong strange when you can point to everything BUT the movie to get your info
So your saying that Castle Bravo was a Kiloton nuke and not a Megaton?
You do realize that mistakes slip through the cracks in movies right? Doesn't change the fact that Legendary Pictures Godzilla tanked Castle Bravo. They even say it in Kong Skull Island. Castle Bravo was a 15 Megaton Hydrogen Bomb. So yes that line in the 2014 movie was clearly a mistake.
Meaning the Nuke they tried to use on the MUTO's in the 2014 film at the end was more powerful, then Castle Bravo.
By that logic i could easily say skull island was the movie that made the mistake rather than the movie about godzilla that highlighted a plot point
Kong Skull Island fixed some of the mistakes from the previous movie. Stuff like that happens all the time.
It's called Retconed
By that logic g14 retconned both its tie in materials and made them noncanon since there are differences even if small parts are acknowledged.
Example: the 100s of pieces of media for the old star wars universe that also had characters and events added to the current canon while not making the entirety of the works canon.
^ Yeah that explains why, and confirms at the same time that it's canon. Plus the Star Wars universe actually Retconed a lot of it's material and the studio responsible for what's canon has said what actually is and what isn't.
Legendary Pictures never said that Godzilla Awakening isn't canon. Especially now that a character from that book has been added to the Monarch Timeline and Skull Island using certain things from the graphic novel.
That post was largely unrelated to its canon and vague at that.
Star Wars retconned everything and started over, outside a tv show. Once disney made the mandate everything needed to be canon it was restarted and characters from the old were taken and used when possible.
Godzilla Awakening was made before the monsterverse was concepted outside what might have been a vague idea, had no relation to the development of its own movie and once the universe was made the BIGGEST part and whole point of the comic are left unmentioned while single named is dragged up in the official timeline.
They both sound similar don't they?
For the purposes of the actual debate at hand, I propose that we utilize Awakening, if only for the additional context it gives behind the physical statistics of the character of Godzilla, DEATH BATTLE style. Let's not nitpick over canon here, we have other threads for that.
There's not much else to add from the comic anyways, besides the possible asteroid feat and slightly more detailed usage of Legendary Godzilla's plasma breath, which is seen to be able to create small craters upon contact with the ground in addition to being able to burn up a Shinomura entirely if all of its individual colony members can be caught in the stream.
Coupled with Legendary Godzilla's impressive physique and demonstrated feats in the film, Shin Godzilla would be hard-pressed to keep him down.
Actually no they don't sound similar. One started completely over while the other is still building it's universe. Literally that link I provided shows that Legendary Pictures, Gareth Edwards and the guy who wrote the movie which is the same guy who wrote the graphic novel all saying that it's part of the movie and expands on the mythology.
Anyways Shin stands no chance against Legendary Godzilla.
As for how Godzilla was represented. I give it to Legendary Pictures. They truly captured the character throughout the years. They truly made him contemporary and added everything from Toho's rich history.
As for the actual film? Well I personally hated Shin Godzilla, because it didn't feel like Godzilla and watch extremely boring with no character's. A complete opposite reaction from what I felt when I saw Legendary Pictures. People actually cheered whenever he appeared, and people clapped when he won. Super satisfying that so many enjoyed it. It's certainly my second favorite Godzilla movie.
"Which is the same guy that wrote the novelization." completely bullshit. Greg Cox wrote the novelization. Max Boring-stein wrote the films script. Neither Greg Cox or the guy who wrote the Awakening are the guys who wrote the films script. Get your facts straight.
Even then in one of those interviews, Max Borenstein blatantly said the films script was completed long before the novelization or comic were even considered. When asked directly if it was "Canon" he diverted the question many times. The point is, the comic and novelization are not Canon. End of discussion.
Yes, end of discussion here.
Their inclusion as part of the DEATH BATTLE styled VS debate here, though? Not quite! They have much to offer, and contextualize a lot of Legendary Godzilla's feats more clearly. Same general character in the same franchise. Of course, no need to bring them into the fold in terms of discussing the films' merits. We'll do that in other threads.
Borenstein has written Godzilla(2014) and Kong: Skull Island (2017) also the graphic novel Godzilla Awakening. Plus his gonna write the upcoming sequel Godzilla King of the Monsters. He has said in multiple interviews that it's canon and Legendary Pictures and Gareth Edwards support that.
^ That's proof enough. You can pretend that Max isn't in the credits for those films. Doesn't mean your right.
Plus I never said novelization. I said he wrote the novel. As in Graphic Novel.
Seriously get your facts straight.
Anyways I already gave my thoughts on who would win, which was better at representing the character and it's rich history, and which film was better.
He's a co-writer, not the full on writer. I'm sure his brother probably had more to do with writing the comic book. He was contacted last minute after the films script was completed and already shooting. Max Boring-stein was also a co-writer for Kong not the full script writer. Same will be said for 2019and the best part is, he's not on the 2020 team for script writing.
Ok. So you said you prefer legendary over Shin. That's your right. But, g14 is very much a millennium film with Hollywood effects at best and it's sad older films before it did it better. As for me, Shin Godzilla blows 2014 out of the water by a mile margin. Also, Shin had more engaging characters than 2014.
Yeah I didn't see any character's in Shin. Unless you count that girl smiling at the end of the movie when she didn't the entire time character development.
G14 as the garbage Millennium series? Yeah that's super far off in way to many ways. But whatever it's your opinion.
Max still wrote and is credited to those films. Respectively of course.
Rando Yaguchi (Hiroki Hasegawa) is our main character of the film. Period. The girl you saw smile? Which one? We had Satomi Ishihara who was Kayoko Ann Patterson, we had Jun Kudamari who was our military general that also played in Godzilla Final Wars 2004, you forget him? That's just a very short list of characters. Hell, the PM was more engaging than Ford ever could be.
A garbage millennium film? I'm still sorry but it's true. I mean, G14 was like an American attempt at Terror of mechagodzilla 1975 and came up short.
Ha terror of mecha godzilla huh? Now that's ridiculous in way to many levels. Plus yes I completely forgot every name in Shin Godzilla. There was so many and so many boardroom meetings that I lost track and interest. My second viewing I paid closer attention and still board the me to no end.
Ford was stoic and generally level headed, even in stressful situations. However, he ended up breaking his stoic demeanor a few times; namely when Joseph was gravely injured from the M.U.T.O.'s arrival, when he contacted Elle shortly before undertaking the train operation, and lastly, when he reunited with her in the aftermath of Godzilla's fight with the M.U.T.O.s.
Despite these breaks in his generally stoic attitude, he's depicted as being conscious of knowing when and where grieving and emotional outbursts are acceptable, and is capable of being ready to shove his personal issues aside in order to pay attention to a greater issue.
He's also very selfless and resourceful, having voluntarily stayed behind as his military comrades pushed forward with their goal, so he could create a makeshift explosive that would end up destroying the M.U.T.O. nest and saving Godzilla's life inadvertently.
^ That was a actual character unlike every character in Shin. There's way to many that it doesn't even compare.
Ok then. What's the story about? Family matters? I guess. Ridiculous? As for what being ridiculous? Comparing it to a far superior film? Yeah, that's ridiculous. I'm sorry I compared it to Terror of mechagodzilla.
Ford hiding his emotions doesn't mean a great character. In fact, that's just boring. Elle, what did she do? Look out for her child? Yes, but still nothing more relevant to the film. Looking out for your child is one thing, getting more involved with what's happening is another. At least team Yaguchi participated in doing something meaningful for the film I'm Shin Godzilla.
Yeah you thinking that Terror of MechaGodzilla is a superior film is all you buddy. To me TOMG is a stupid, cheesy movie with horrible suits and extremely outdated even by the standards of the year that it was made.
Shin is as basic as any 50s monster movie. It has absolutely no character's, and has major changes to the character that it copies from other monsters. Losing it's own identity.
Also most military man hide there emotions for the mission. Ford literally acts just like my cousin. I relate way more with Ford then anything in Shin Godzilla. Yes Elle was a story component for Ford. A mother who takes care of her child is something that is relatable. It even reflects Ford when he sees the little boy separated from his family and saw his own within him. He took it apon himself to make sure that kid will be reunited with his family. Just like how he hopes he would be soon.
As characters go, I would have loved to see Fords father remain alive. Brian Cranston gave an excellent performance, in reality seeing him be able to help destroy the MUTO's in the end would have felt much better than seeing Ford do it. After seeing his wife die right before his eyes, making a huge sacrifice to save others, then living like a crackpot for years, losing his relationship with his son and grandson, it would have been way better to see him gain revenge against the monsters that destroyed his family by destroying the MUTO babies. It would have been poetic justice. Then at the end be reunited with his son and grandson. That would have been way better character development and story telling. Ford I felt did not possess those abilities to drive a movie to that. It fell short in my opinion.
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