I don't want to beat a dead horse... so I'll cut to the chase. I do not think the monsterverse was created... exclusively for Godzilla. I think that should Godzilla King of the Monsters and Godzilla vs Kong do better than expected at the Box office... in my opinion... TOHO will see this as what they hoped for with the 1998 version of Godzilla (in name only)… where it would become the new Godzilla in which to build a successful addition to the franchise. TOHO's response to 98 Zilla' was Godzilla 2000... and for obvious reasons. The brand was hurt by Hollywood's incarnation (more like abomination).
As for TOHO... they would be wise not to reveal any secret deals done with Legendary regarding other Kaiju from the TOHO line up... that is... if they have green lighted any other Kaiju.
Any who… opinions anyone
I think all of us are hoping for this to happen and I think it will. With the hype over KOTM and GvK, they would be stupid not to continue with the Monsterverse. Hopefully, we could get a Mothra/Rodan solo movie.
Long live the king...
It seems based on the progression of it all that the 2014 G film wasn't made with the outright intention to make the Monsterverse at all, but rather the inspiration came afterward in light of the continuing success of the MCU and the generally warm reception of G14. The future of the Monsterverse beyond G vs Kong seems wholly dependent on whether or not Toho grants a continuation of the license for Warners and Legendary to use Godzilla at all, because if they don't allow Godzilla to be in anymore American films after the trilogy is completed then frankly I doubt we'll see anymore "Monsterverse" films at all, because without Godzilla as a selling point to continue to connect the films I doubt they'll feel confident in continuing it even with other good monsters to highlight it.
Great post I totally agree with you I think that Toho to keep quiet on any deals done with Legendary that involve any other of their amazing Kaiju creations (this may be wishful thinking but everytime I see that thing coming out of the ground in the Godzilla trailer I think it's Anguirus more and more). It would be one of the best kept secrets in movie history and the best surprises to see a classic monster show up that we weren't aware about .
I hope once Toho sees the box office success Godzilla king of the monsters and King Kong versus Godzilla (yes I have faith in both movies) the keys of the kingdom will be handed over to Legendary and along with it all at ojos monsters hence the monsterverse will have a long and bright future. We really need something like this to have a movie universe that isn't based on superheroes but giant monsters. Fingers crossed people!
Here's the problem, according to people who have worked with Toho, in particular Shinji Higuchi who shared this information with us at G-Fest, is that under the current contract so long as Legendary makes live movies with Godzilla in them Toho CANNOT make live action films, which is why we got the anime series (with Shin being the one exception with the window that existed in 2015-16). Now Toho is planning their own new Monsterverse....so unless something changes with the contract Legendary's universe has to end so that Toho can begin their own movies again, and we have no word of anything after Kong yet, so the odds are not great atm that anymore American films will star the Big G after Kong. But, that might change depending on how things go, we just have to wait and see.
Its rough cause though I am excited for KOTM, when they announced the monster lineup ..I was and still am worried how they will handle so many monsters on screen. As the only successful model (Marvel) would suggest its about building your worlds and inhabiting them and working towards interweaving threads towards a large battle. Here's where it gets tricky. This alleged monsterverse isn't dealing with super heroes, rather its dealing with monsters. And all these films have to be done tactfully. Im a big proponent of each movie being it's on singular thing. I really don't want to see a cookie cutter formulaic monster movie after monster movie (despite not being a Marvel fan, they do a good job of finding a balance). Each has to have it's on style and feel to it. Say what you will about Edwards'. Im a firm supporter in it b/c less face it, all the USA had before that was the 98 zilla...and Godzilla's intro in G'14 was better than all of 98 zilla's running time. They have to tread softly though. I would also argue that not many of the monsters have fleshed out stories for stand alone movies....(I mean I wouldn't want to see a King Caesar stand alone movie) Then comes the other issue of having compelling enough characters. And there's the issue that we won't care about the human characters..we just want the monsters. So there is a fine balance that has to be had depending on the success of KOTM. I however await hopefully.
For now, Godzilla, that strangely innocent and tragic monster, has gone to earth. Whether he returns or not or is never again seen by human eyes, the things he has taught us remain.
I'm a firm supporter of Kong Skull Island, but G2014 was disappointing across the board. I still have high Hope's for KotM tho. I am not worried about the amount of iconic kaiju in the film, as it seems they know what they're doing, and I trust Michael Dougherty. I did not trust Garreth Edward's, and with good reason. The monsters are easier to craft a big story around than the entire MCU, bc they aren't having to focus on 32 character arcs. The problem with have 4 of Toho's top 5, and more of a budget than ever before, is fans will want to see a lot of them, and most importantly, amazing action sequences and fights. Everything I've seen so far, and all the director's comments, make me fairly certain they've got it covered. My biggest worries lie in similarities to the 1st. I want there to be very few. 2014 never felt dire, you never felt the impact of anything, the lead was awful, all the humans felt flat and lifeless, the bugs were lame, there was very little city destruction and military fighting, etc, etc, etc. Say what you will about Godzilla98, but even tho the characters were goofy, you still cared if they died, with made moments feel exciting, even if they were laughable. And Zilla's 1st appearance was pretty cool, you actually felt like you were seeing a giant monster. The goofy characters were definitely annoying, but at least the movie didn't feel like no fun allowed, like in 2014. G98 failed at a lot of things, but in trying to be so different from it, G2014 failed at the things 98 did right, as well as all new failures with the improved direction they too. I would still say 2014 is better, but only just. If someone else thought 98 was better, I'd understand that too. They both missed the mark badly. Skull Island understood it's monster, and solidly hit the mark. I just hope that mentality filtered over into KotM. I hope they reference Skull Island, and go a bit further into the lore behind these Titans, why are they hiding? Why not on Skull Island? How are these animals all connected? And I really hope this time, it doesn't feel like all the human are characterless robots. Once again, Skull Island figured that out easily.
Responding to Yukispecial, what you described is almost everything I've been worrying about, you laid it all out. Not being behind the scenes, I don't know how this all works. How much does Toho get from these films? Naturally one would think that if they do well, Toho would want to continue accepting their free money. But they have to be able to use their own characters in live action movies! Will Legendary be bitches again and want sole live action rights? Or will they be reasonable and be able to accept Godzilla movies being made in Japan every 1-2 years, while they continue on with the Monsterverse at a slightly slower pace? If Legendary & Toho are both ok with 2 Godzilla series being produced concurrently, will they be able to work around each other's release schedules? Or could they somehow have their universes distantly connected? Can you have concurrent Godzilla series in this day & age, with us so easily connected to Japan thru the internet & social media? Does Toho even need our money? There are so many more questions to be asked, this doesn't even scratch the surface of what I would like to know. Being on the outside blows, there are so many possibilities, it's hard to even argue online. One would think that if these next 2 movies do as well or better than the 1st 2, then something will be worked out and maybe Japan's films will be relegated to direct to video sales in the US and maybe some other major markets, but who knows?
From what was told to us by Higuchi I wouldn't say it was a case of Legendary being restrictive and demanding, Toho agreed to the licensing agreements and the timeframe of the deal but I suspect it was done out of some mutal arrangement so that movies wouldn't come out in the same year and be "in competition" with each other, which is why Shin had to be released when it was. Toho does get a great deal of royalty money all around from Legendary both in the box office and the merchandise, but the new Tohoverse deal seems to be including involvement and funding from companies outside of Toho, so likely it seems that they want to get back into movie making directly with shared financing costs because that could mean more direct box office income for them in addition to the merchandising and all that. I just believe that the Legendary universe will end up being a trilogy when all is said and done and that Toho will take the reigns fully again, though I'm with you and most of the fans I think who would like to see both go side by side along and prosper.
Toho should do more movies on kaiju other than Godzilla. They could definitely expand and add more loveable kaiju to battle each other. More people for fans to love and for new people to see then get interested in.
I completely agree with Kaijuworld. if TOHO forced legendary to stop after GvK, we could expect a massive fan revolt. the Monsterverse has attracted so many devoted fans, from fans of the original Godzilla films, to younger viewers (like me) who are being introduced to a newer Godzilla. Imagine all those people just having to watch the monsterverse end. TOHO would definitely be stupid to end the Monsterverse.
"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."
I'm hoping Legendary will reach out to other Tokusastsu film industries as well. Maybe get some more Gamera movies finally.
It's unclear what kind of royalties Toho is getting from Legendary/WB worldwide. However, a Nikkei article from last May seems to indicate they're not too thrilled with the fact that they can't license their own Godzilla merchandise overseas. Keiji Ota, who is the "Chief Godzilla Officer" for Toho's Godzilla Conference said:
"Actually, up until now, both Legendary and Warner Bros has had the marketing rights for oversea markets, which is why we did not sale GODZILLA T-Shirts for foreign markets, or develop smartphone games and deploy them for foreign markets.
But in the future we would like do it all in-house by ourselves."
It certainly indicates they want the rights back themselves. There seems to be an insinuation that Toho is not making as much money as they'd like from Legendary/WB licensed merchandise overseas. (If any.)
As for Godzilla '14, we've always been told that Legendary got to keep 75% of the box office take and Warner Brothers got to keep the other 25%. This does not include Japan. Toho got to keep all of the box office earnings from the film in Japan as they were the sole distributors. So that's $31.5 million that Legendary/WB did not get to keep (with or without distribution fees)--But it's just as well since Toho didn't get anything else out of the movie worldwide.
It sounds like a great deal for Toho, but consider that Shin Godzilla made roughly $79 million in Japan vs. Godzilla '14's $31 million. (5.69 million people went to see Shin Godzilla in Japan vs. Godzilla '14's 2.18 million.) Even though Toho didn't spend any money on Godzilla '14, Shin Godzilla still made more profit.
Additionally, it's been long stated that Godzilla merchandise makes more money than the movies. If Toho isn't licensing merchandise overseas and/or feels they're missing out on profits, then it makes sense for them to want it back.
Assuming Toho has issues with their royalty deals, getting both full film rights and merchandising rights back would benefit them greatly--It especially makes sense if they think they can make more money off of their own Godzilla movies.
This isn't to say a new deal can't be struck between Legendary and Toho after 2020. But if Toho extends the deal I think we can all bet on an altered contract that allows them more freedom and/or control with Godzilla. And as pure speculation, I'm betting Godzilla's price tag will skyrocket as well.
^Gman… I think you're right. an altered contract may be on the horizon. But it's still remains to be seen.
Didn't TOHO say they wanted to create their own monsterverse ? Shin Gojira may have done better in Japan but worldwide... didn't G14 make more overall ? And with G KOM coming... it stands to reason that TOHO could make deals with WB and Legendary (they'd be smart too) Merchandise across the board would fly off the shelves world wide in the wake of big box office success for the next 2 films... so Legendary and WB should align with TOHO and continue to build the monterverse… with TOHO having a place at the table. If memory serves me right... TOHO was initially against the advent of another G film and were pretty sore about the fact that they had no creative control over it... but... Mike Dougherty might just be the answer to the problem... for if he truly honors the reputation of Godzilla... it might redeem Hollywood in the eyes of the Japanese fan base and TOHO as well... and WB and Legendary should offer TOHO a new proposal and form an alliance of sorts for an on going Monsterverse… where TOHO benefits financially.
As for merchandise... I want posters... t shirt... figures ect ect ect. I'm willing to buy anything connected to the next 2 films.
Godzilla '14 made more money worldwide, but as far as we know, Toho only gets the money these movies make in Japan. Godzilla '14 made $31 million and Shin Godzilla made $79 million--It's easy to see why they would rather stick to their own devices.
Toho has also never said they were sore about having no creative control--In fact they made a lot of stipulations on the 2014 film. Although hearsay, it was apparently Toho that mandated Godzilla fight another monster in 2014. They also had a lot of say on Godzilla's design.
Toho has expressed interest in creating their own Godzilla universe, but how they want to go about it has yet to be addressed.
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