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Godzilla 2014 vs. Godzilla Resurgence official debate thread

Godzilla 2014 vs. Godzilla Resurgence official debate thread

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Chris

King GhidorahAdmin19707 XPApr-16-2016 7:42 PMTeam Ghidorah

This thread will act as a debate platform for fans to discuss the differences and competition between Legendary's Godzilla and Toho's Shin-Gojira from Godzilla Resurgence. 

We can separate the debate into 3 main categories:

Design and Concept

Which Godzilla has the better design? Which influential concepts did the King of the Monsters the most justice?

Abilities in a Fight

If the two Godzillas ever met and engaged in combat. Which one is more powerful? How would that battle play out?

Film Style and Quality

Keeping in mind both are completely different styles of film, this category is likely to spark some diverse opinions. Those debating this category should be familiar with both film's backgrounds and messages.

Regarding Godzilla Resurgence, many debate points will need to wait until new footage and/or the film is released. As right now, we don't know much about Shin-Goji's abilities and film style. For now however, the design is open for comparison and debate.

Let them fight...

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154 Responses to Godzilla 2014 vs. Godzilla Resurgence official debate thread

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 5:33 AM

@Gman123, 

Funny thing is, Shin Godzilla feeds on radiation as well. Also, if it is NOT seen in film, it is NOT Canon. 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

Darth Shiro

TitanosaurusMember883 XPOct-25-2016 5:35 AM

....... That's what i said....

Dinosaurs incredible creatures who roamed the Earth 65 million years ago. Never had nature been filled with so much terror and beauty...

Darth Shiro

TitanosaurusMember883 XPOct-25-2016 5:38 AM

Also Ben didn't Serisawa said that Godzilla 14 feeds on radiation? It isn't seen but he says that.

Dinosaurs incredible creatures who roamed the Earth 65 million years ago. Never had nature been filled with so much terror and beauty...

GG

GiganStaff3811 XPOct-25-2016 8:20 AMTeam Godzilla

Actually not true. Films make up most of the canon, but authorized novelizations, like the G14 one that Gareth Edwards said was legit--do count as canon.

It's like the latest Dragon Ball movies and their manga counterparts, both are canon.

Good grief.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 8:25 AM

Care to share and show me when and where Gareth Edwards said it was Canon? 

 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

GG

GiganStaff3811 XPOct-25-2016 8:35 AMTeam Godzilla

Gareth Edwards annoucnes Godzilla Awakening.

Pave the way for the film? xD, doesn't get more official than that.

Good grief.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 8:43 AM

Pave the way is for marketing purposes. I mean, the dvd and blu-ray say "watch the movie first then experience the awakening."

Again, the comic and novelization are not Canon. Both are written by people Not associated with legendary. 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

GG

GiganStaff3811 XPOct-25-2016 8:48 AMTeam Godzilla

But they are considered canon. Whether it be for marketing purposes or not, it is still accepted by the creator and Legendary as part of the Godzilla experience--meaning it is apart of the story. However, I can see how it won't be accepted as it makes legendary Godzilla way too overpowered.

Good grief.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 8:58 AM

They are not Canon. What happens in the film is the story itself. The thing is, Gareth Edwards and Max Borenstein never have said the words "it is Canon." 

They have to say that in order to be true and official. 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

Darth Shiro

TitanosaurusMember883 XPOct-25-2016 9:04 AM

Happy 100th comment opinion battle thread....

Dinosaurs incredible creatures who roamed the Earth 65 million years ago. Never had nature been filled with so much terror and beauty...

GG

GiganStaff3811 XPOct-25-2016 9:11 AMTeam Godzilla

That is your opinion. They never said it was not canon, but never uttered the words "canon". It leans more on it being truly canon.

Good grief.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 9:31 AM

Wut? Ok, so, they never said it was or wasn't. Yet for some reason in so many interviews with them, they both diverted the question when asked repeatedly. Hmmm... :/

 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

GG

GiganStaff3811 XPOct-25-2016 9:33 AMTeam Godzilla

Show me a few of these "interviews". I don't believe they actually diverted the question man.

Good grief.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 9:48 AM

http://geektyrant.com/news/godzilla-awakening-interview-with-writer-max-borenstein-on-the-graphic-novel-and-movie

There's the link but, I'll save you the time. Pay close attention to this.

 

Free Reyes: When you were writing the script for Godzilla, was the story of Godzilla Awakening something that was brought up after you had completed the script? Or at what point was it brought into development?

Max Borenstein:  It was brought up as a project while the movie was being shot already,

 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 9:50 AM

The movie was already being shot and filmed. Therefore, it is not Canon. It was a side project. 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

TheGMan123

TitanosaurusMember729 XPOct-25-2016 10:08 AM

Well, see, the semantics of language confound all of us, don't they? We don't all interpret the same thing unless it's clear cut. I'm used to VS debate rules, meaning that all sources that are a part of that particular character are valid. But I understand why you guys don't want to use that stuff unless absolutely confirmed. I don't agree with it, but I understand.

Besides that, however, I didn't just use the novelization. According to calculations on the nature of the breath done by some folks over at Spacebattles, the atomic breath of Legendary Godzilla is consistent with the properties of a plasma torch, which is itself consistent with the novelization.

Also, not that it really matters, but the novelization and an early screenplay make mention of the M.U.T.O.s' E.M.P. being a species-specific adaptation to counteract Godzilla's species' atomic breath. Doesn't matter to the debate at hand, however.

GG

GiganStaff3811 XPOct-25-2016 10:14 AMTeam Godzilla

I'm just confounded at the prospect that a Godzilla fan is trying to deny that Godzilla had these abilities. Ben, why?

Good grief.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 4:33 PM

@gman123,

So which is it, a plasma beam or atomic breath? Plasma, the last I checked, doesn't consist of radiation at all.

Also, if that were right about the mutos adapting to Godzilla's atomic breath, how and why would Godzilla be even able to get close to the female muto when her "sphere of influence" was knocking all electronic devices out cold within her distance?  

@Gg,

"I'm confounded by a Godzilla fan trying to deny these abilities. Ben, why?"

First off, huh? Secondly, because it's not denial. It's pointing out that "fan conjecture" is simply killing the commonsense of people who love this franchise. 

I'm sorry gentlemen. 

 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

TheGMan123

TitanosaurusMember729 XPOct-25-2016 5:42 PM

It's called an atomic breath, but all evidence points to it being a plasma torch using radioactive energy as a power source. By technicality, that qualifies it as an "atomic" breath, in a sense. Also, we have no film context for this weapon being radioactive, which we DID get for Shin Godzilla's beam.

Thus, the logical conclusion, based on the showings in the film, the novelization's stance, and the vague description on the biography website would be to say that it's an atomic-powered plasma cutter.

Huge-Ben

BaragonMember330 XPOct-25-2016 6:00 PM

"We have no film context for this weapon being radioactive."

Uh, yeah we do. The fact that they actually mention that radiation is it's good source is the evidence. I mean, you are what you eat. ;)

"By technicality, that qualifies it as an "atomic" breath in a sense." so, you just answered it yourself then right? Atomic means radioactive. Its always been revered to as either an atomic breath or radioactive breath. Even death ray. 

"The novelization's stance." again, written by another person. Not the actual script writer. And if I'm not mistaken, isn't the Godzilla in that book specifically classified at 400 feet tall? For some reason though, the one in the film is 355 feet tall. 

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on [email protected]

TheGMan123

TitanosaurusMember729 XPOct-26-2016 4:02 AM

The vague descriptor on the website merely claims that atomic energy is used to power a "blue flame". The observed properties of the breath in the film itself in question are consistent with what the novelization describes: a stream of high-intensity plasma, designed to effectively burn objects.

These properties are also supported by the prequel comic, where the breath weapon in question's effectiveness against the Shinomura is the fact that it uses high heat to simply burn all the individual creatures in the colony to ashes. As well, in said comic, the breath creates a small crater when it impacts solid ground, indicative of a plasma torch's limited kinetic impact when blowing away chips of metal for a clean cut.

This is also observable when Godzilla finishes off the female M.U.T.O., where the breath weapon cleanly burns through her neck and blows away little neck parts to leave a relatively even stump (ew.....). This is also consistent with the novelization and early screenplay mentioning the E.M.P. of the M.U.T.O.s counteracting the breath weapon, as plasma torches require electric currents to be passed through gas (oversimplification, but you get the gist of it).

The only evidence for the atomic breath being radioactive in any sense is the namesake. But even that is questionable given the descriptor of the weapon.

captainunicorn

Mothra LarvaeMember14 XPDec-15-2016 5:54 PM

Some arguments to support a LegeGoji victory (I've already mentioned some of this information):

LegeGoji tanks multiple megaton nukes in his background stories. The 2014 movie's opening sequence depicts the Castle Bravo detonation which was a 15 megaton nuclear bomb. For comparison, a 1 megaton nuclear bomb's gamma rays would vaporize humans (leaving "ghost shadows" on the ground) within a 16 square kilometer radius and be followed by a pressure wave that induces bleeding from every orifice. That's not to mention possible resulting firestorms, the ensuing gale force winds, and high temperatures. Nuclear detonations reach temperatures of over 100 million degrees Celsius; that's multiple times hotter than the core of the sun (this is because the fission rate of a detonation is instantaneous compared to the sun's prolonged core fission, leading to hotter temperatures), which is only 15 million degrees Celsius. To withstand a nuclear explosion at its epicenter is an impossibly mind staggering durability feat, let alone multiple detonations.

ShinGoji, on the other hand, was heavily injured by two GBU-57 MOPs (Massive Ordnance Penetrator) to the extent that he had to evolve active countermeasure defenses (the laser defenses) to avoid being hit again. While GBU-57s are massive (14,000 kg), they are still conventional weapons and their blast yields are nowhere near comparable to those that LegeGoji has tanked (repeatedly).Not to mention, the United States's GBU-57 MOPs have been through testing and are shown to have the following penetration capabilities per individual MOP: 61 meters of normal, 5000 psi hardened concrete, "8 meters of 10,000 psi rock or concrete," and only "2 meters of 30,000 psi material" (Next Big Future, May 2016) which is right around the level of strong granite.

LegeGoji tanks point blank nuclear blasts, while ShinGoji received severe injuries from a conventional penetration weapon that loses 86% effectiveness when you double the strength of normal concrete. But why would LegeGoji display reactions to conventional weaponry while ShinGoji doesn't flinch (aside from the MOPs)?

We know that LegeGoji has walked away from nuclear blasts, so what is the meaning of him showing pain when he is hit in the gills despite his healing ability and durability? Simply put, pain is one way the nervous system communicates outside influences; it's a survival mechanic. Therefore, it is possible that these conventional attacks don't actually have any significant physical effect on LegeGoji (how could they in the face of the nuke feat?) aside from sending neurological messages of attempted assaults on the body, aka "pain." Consider this: if you put your hand on a hot stove, you might yell out "****!" and pull your hand away, but are you about to die? Not even close. ShinGoji, on the other hand, is covered in scarring. If nerve function isn't working properly, there may be no indication to him that he's sustaining damage, which might explain a lack of visible pain responses.

As for a fight, there are advantages and disadvantages to either side of being able or unable to process pain; LegeGoji will process pain and react accordingly while ShinGoji might not even notice any sustained damage except until the point where his life is in jeopardy. We can't really be certain what extent of actual physical damage a pain stimulus corresponds to for LegeGoji, but we can look at their actual durability feats: LegeGoji survives multiple megaton nuclear blasts while ShinGoji is heavily injured by two conventional GBU-57 MOPs. In the end, I give the durability edge to LegeGoji by far, for the nuke feat.

VIPERTRON

Mothra LarvaeMember15 XPFeb-28-2017 3:04 PM

I watched shin godzilla a few months back, and look at it, the face! the teeth! it's so scary! Godzilla 2014 looks better and has better CGI and special effects, but shin godzilla is much more powerful. Personally, I like 2014 godzilla way better, but I can't give this fight to 2014 godzilla, because the purple atomic breath? that would wreck 2014 easily! Shin is more like a god or the devil, because even in its regular stage, it looks like its made of dried lava with that red glow! Shin godzilla is basically the devil, because look at that face and tell me it looks friendly, like the 2014 version. When I watched the 2014 godzilla, I was never scared, but shin godzilla gave me nightmares. 2014 godzilla is still possible to kill, but shin godzilla is basically impossible to kill. The only reason shin zilla isn't agile fast or in a position to move is its basically indestructible. That face though, looks like that plant creature Biollante. The 2014 godzilla is still a living creature, but the Shin is on a completly different level. 2014 godzilla is like t rex in JW, but Shin godzilla is like I rex!  

captainunicorn

Mothra LarvaeMember14 XPMar-06-2017 12:04 PM

Fact: The GBUs severely injured Shin but would lose 96.72%, achieving only 2 meters out of the initial 61 meters, of their effective penetration on strong granite. Strong granite on the Mohs hardness scale is a 7+ at best; for comparison, Heisei Super Mechagodzilla had diamond coated armor, which is rated as a 10 (although there are harder materials). But the Mohs scale isn't the best comparison as it just asks which material can scratch which; a better comparison might be the Vickers scale in which a Moh rating of 7 corresponds to a Vickers hardness of 1,200 kg/mm^2 and a Moh rating of 10 corresponds to a Vickers hardness of 10,000 kg/mm^2, eight times the hardness of the Moh scale 7 rating. (geology . com)

Speculation: This suggests that ShinGoji is significantly less "durable" than SMG; at least eight times less durable.

Fact: Looking up the L/44 cannons on the Japanese Type 10 MBTs in the movie shows that the 120mm rounds have under 1 meter of RHA equivalent penetration through single layer composite steel. Steel maxes under 5 on the Moh scale ~ 500 kg/mm^2 Vickers scale.

Conclusion: It makes sense that the tank rounds did nothing while the penetrator bombs punched through.

Fact: Concrete and steel are nowhere near the hardness of diamond.

Conclusion: ShinGoji's beam may slice through concrete, glass, and steel buildings like butter, but that does not guarantee that it could penetrate SMG's diamond coated armor, and it would be faulty speculation to conclude that Shin's beam is a trump card to all other kaiju.

Conclusion: ShinGoji's durability is comparatively inferior to LegeGoji's durability considering the numerous multi-megaton nuclear survivor feats.

Zilla RoE

Mothra LarvaeMember16 XPMar-07-2017 2:34 PM

Considering how easy shin could tear through buildings with the laser breath, i say shin will slice legendary into little pieces, unless shin needs to charge said laser breath, then if legendary can get close enough, then legendary will win in a melee fight. however, shin's tail is still pretty maneuverable and the beam coming out of it is supposedly as powerful as the mouth one, so that could be used to easily kill legendary since he can't dodge something that fast.

GodzillaBoi908

Mothra LarvaeMember11 XPMar-22-2017 5:06 AM

I think Legendary Godzilla's brute strength would manage to defeat Shin Gojira in a short time as Legendary Godzilla is much stronger when it comes to are strength, by simply getting to the side of Shin Gojira and attacking can, in turn, win the fight. Shin Gojira may have a much, much, much more power atomic blast, it still has a cool down and a slow heat up. Legendary Godzilla could survive an atomic explosion while Shin Gojira was taken down by MISSILE CARRYING TRAINS! Legendary Godzilla would out-brute and out-wit Shin-Gojira

riggzamortis86

TitanosaurusMember667 XPAug-29-2017 6:59 AM

Legendary Godzilla got knocked down by a building. Shin took several buildings plus the trains plus the coagulant. Even if shin is cooling down and standing still, he can still attack and not even need to move. If one of those beams hits Legendary G, it will slice him up. Shin is deadly in a 360 degree danger zone. He can attack above as well as below, behind and in front effectively. Plus Shin evolves with every attack.

YOU.....DUMBBELL!

antovald20

Mothra LarvaeMember29 XPAug-30-2017 5:13 PM

Legendary Godzilla tanks multiple megaton nukes in his background stories. The 2014 movie's opening sequence depicts the Castle Bravo detonation which was a 50 megaton nuclear bomb. For comparison, a 1 megaton nuclear bomb's gamma rays would vaporize humans (leaving "ghost shadows" on the ground) within a 16 square kilometer radius and be followed by a pressure wave that induces bleeding from every orifice. That's not to mention possible resulting "firestorms," the ensuing gale force winds, and high temperatures. Nuclear detonations reach temperatures of over 100 million degrees Celsius; forget the surface of the sun, that's multiple times hotter than the core of the sun (this is because the fission rate of a detonation is instantaneous compared to the sun's prolonged core fission, leading to hotter temperatures), which is only 15 million degrees Celcius. To withstand a nuclear explosion at its epicenter is an impossibly mind staggering durability feat, let alone multiple detonations.

But wait! There's more. Following 2014 lore, Godzilla: Awakening depicts Legendary Godzilla in the impact vicinity of an asteroid that collided with Earth, in an event that is suggested to be the precursor to the age of the dinosaurs, known as the PT extinction. The PT extinction rate is estimated to be in the ballpark of 90% of all species on Earth. In comparison, the KT extinction that killed off the dinosaurs had an extinction rate of 70% of all species on Earth; this may be relevant because the KT extinction was very likely to have been caused by an asteroid around 10 kilometers in diameter. Such an asteroid would have a blast yield of... wait for it... 100 million megatons!

Shin Godzilla, on the other hand, was heavily injured by two GBU-57 MOPs (Massive Ordnance Penetrator) to the extent that he had to utilize active countermeasure defenses (the laser defenses) to avoid being hit again. While GBU-57s are massive (14,000 kg), they are still conventional weapons and their blast yields are nowhere near comparable to those that Legendary Godzilla has tanked (repeatedly). But why would Legendary Godzilla display reactions to conventional weaponry while Shin Godzilla doesn't flinch (aside from the MOPs)? We know that Legendary Godzilla has literally walked away from nuclear blasts, so what is the meaning of him showing pain when he is hit in the gills despite his healing ability and durability? Simply put, pain is one way the nervous system communicates outside influences; it's a survival mechanic. Therefore, it is possible that these conventional attacks don't actually have any significant physical effect on Legendary Godzilla (how could they in the face of the nuke feat?) aside from sending neurological messages of attempted assaults on the body, aka "pain." Shin Godzilla, on the other hand, is covered in scarring. If nerve function isn't functioning properly, there may be no indication to him that he's sustaining damage. As for a fight, there are benefits and disadvantages to either side of being able or unable to process pain; Legendary Godzilla will process pain and act accordingly while Shin Godzilla might not notice damage until the point where his life is in jeopardy. In the end, I give the durability edge to Legendary Godzilla by far, for the nuke feat.

Regarding Legendary Godzillas heat ray, remember that the FEMMUTO has an organic EMP defense system evolved specifically to suppress and disable the Godzilla species's heat ray (this is stated in the novelization of the movie and the sphere of influence is shown in the movie). Despite the FEMMUTO's kryptonitesque hindrance, Legendary Godzilla was still able to summon forth his heat ray on two occasions while near the FEMMUTO. This is not only an extraordinarily impressive biological feat, but also suggests Legendary Godzilla is actually capable of producing a far more powerful heat ray, perhaps by many orders of magnitude.

Lastly Shin Godzilla has thermal vents to stabilize his radiation output, because of this he contaminates everywhere he goes. That helps Legendary Godzilla considerably because he gets stronger just by being near Shin Godzilla. Plus those vents gives Legendary Godzilla easy access to Shin's atomic energy making Shin weaker and go catatonic faster. Legendary is very good at absorbing radiation. He lives at the bottom of the ocean absorbing radiation from the earths core through the thermal vents of the ocean floor. Shin Godzilla to him is nothing but a buffet of never ending nuclear energy. Plus the ocean floor is one of the most pressurized place on earth. You can add that to Legendary Godzilla durability scale. I mean he lives at the bottom of the ocean. 

 

^ All that spells Shin's defeat. Before anyone says the books aren't canon. There's multiple interviews saying that it is. Plus Kong Skull Island using the date when Monarch was established from the book, and the post credit scene showing Godzilla waking up throughout earths history, basically saying what the graphic novel told us, and even now with the inclusion of General Macarthur in the Monarch Timeline is enough evidence. 

The Jurassic Bootleg

BaragonMember468 XPAug-30-2017 7:28 PM

https://lordgojira.deviantart.com/art/Gojee-vs-Shinny-In-A-Shellnut-648910090

 

I say its accurate.

Godzilla Generations was a beautiful game! I loved the fact that there's a laser cannon inside of Dr. Serizawa's eyepatch.

riggzamortis86

TitanosaurusMember667 XPAug-31-2017 5:17 AM

^yet he faints like a grandmother drunk off of schnapps after a building falls on him and again after defeating the female MUTO. for many hours.

Shin destroyed an entire city in seconds and pierced through buildings like butter.

Shin Gojira is at least(to our knowledge) 60 years old and was able to evolve very quickly to do what he did. Legendary is around for millions of years and could barley keep up with the MUTO's. His atomic ray at first put the Female Muto into a power nap, then killed her. Shin straight up incinerated an entire city in less than 60 seconds. If shin fought the Muto's he could have taken them both out in one attack. It took Legendary an entire day to combat just the male MUTO, that was 150 ft less than him(not to mention the weight Godzilla has on the male MUTO)! He had size and that precious atomic ray to use on it and still took him all day to take it out. 

As for the radiation leak, Legendary doesn't have the time like he had with the MUTO's to absorb anything from Shin. SHin can blast legendary from a mile away and slice him up before Legendary gets to take a look at him. Shin is built for quick disposal, unlike his American counter part.

 

YOU.....DUMBBELL!

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