Monster-verse after Godzilla vs. Kong

Thank you, Durp. You hit the nail on the head.

Not to go against anything anyone here has said but, "When I was pursuing who I thought should win between Kong and Godzilla, it was natural and fitting for the film to end in a draw." -Tomoyuki Tanaka. This was translated from the "Toho special effects resource book". 

I agree with Durp. It defeats the purpose of the "vs" title of having them team up, but it's not like we haven't seen monster team ups in the past either. Assuming the general audience take, the typical non-Godzilla fan will see the title "Godzilla vs Kong" and instantly think oh, a fight between the biggest Kaiju icons of pop culture. That is the main reason why people will pay money to see the 2 duke it out. All in all, only time will tell what will happen. 

@number1godzillafan and goo luck to you you little shit! :) seriously go fuck your mother and sister and stay out of the convo.

@Im Durp your name suits you well. I'm guessing you're young and don't get out much or don't know people outside of your parents, but I assure you in my travels I have heard those things. In many Facebook comments and forum posts a lot of older people in particular cite KKvG as a film they have seen as a kind it made a lot of money. LOL

I don't think the very existence of Batman v. Superman negates the possibility of any "versus" movie ever ending in a team-up ever again. Batman v. Superman doesn't own that idea, and it's not like no other studio could ever pursue that idea and do a better job.

Godzilla and Kong are both being set up as the protagonist monsters. The audience is meant to sympathize and root for them both. Each one will have gone through at least one film beforehand where they are the "hero" and defeat some other, more malevolent monster. Having them fight to the death or having one simply triumph over the other, who is suddenly presented as an antagonist, would be unsatisfying from a narrative standpoint at least in my opinion. Godzilla and Kong are both very territorial. It's easy to justify why they would fight. Just get them in the same location and they will probably fight. Heck, maybe Kong could resent Godzilla for his disregard for human and other wildlife casualties in his battles, since Kong is more conscious of other animals.

Coming up with a legitimate reason for them to fight together against a common foe would be an interesting challenge for the filmmakers to tackle, and one I'd like to see. Maybe someone who hates Godzilla or Kong intentionally pits them against each other, hoping they will kill each other, leaving the human protagonists to attempt to stop them. If Godzilla, Mothra or Rodan end up fighting together in Godzilla: King of the Monsters, it will have already set precedent for Godzilla to fight alongside another monster. Kong is also intelligent enough to recognize a friend or foe and know where to focus his rage.

I contest the notion that Batman v. Superman's infamous "Martha" scene means no versus movie should ever end in a team-up ever again. If the filmmakers are talented enough, they should have no problem overcoming the perception left behind by that film and creating a satisfying film that delivers on its premise and concludes the monsters' character arcs. Plus, judging from reports around the time just before Godzilla vs. Kong was released, Legendary and Thomas Tull were confident that Godzilla and Kong could fight and "possibly become allies." Obviously things have changed since then, and nothing is set in stone, but it shows that Legendary may have had the thought of a team-up in their head from the beginning. Their press release announcing the shared universe even referred to Godzilla and Kong as "heroes," making the idea of one being the villain and the other the hero seem less likely to me.

Personally I'd prefer for them to team up, but I also want their battle to be the focus of the film. Godzilla and Kong are both the "heroes" of the MonsterVerse, and it would be anticlimactic in my opinion for their arcs to simply end with them fighting each other instead of some major threat. I'd like to think the existence of Batman v. Superman alone won't determine what direction Legendary takes with the film.

Morgoth has been given an official warning. If one more thing goes south in this thread it's locked. Try to carry on in a civil manner.

TKOTM

I'm not saying that because BvS did it badly it can never be done well, just that when people see VS in the title they expect that to be the main point of the movie. I would prefer if when the VS title is used the monsters don't then team up, it's a personal thing, but I don't think that just because both of the monsters were more in terms of "good" in their own films doesn't mean they have to team up, it just means the loser doesn't necessarily need to die.

@Huge-Ben

you are right. I just thought the idea of how our govt would try to react to the citizens poinbt of view, I wasn't trying to shove it down peoples throats. just thought it would be cool. not trying to offend here. I just loved how in The Return of Godzilla and Shin Godzilla you see how the Japanese govt tries to deal with this threat through a bureaucratic approach. you can sense this dark glooming cloud of a giant atomic monster and what its affect on the world through these points.

Ah, Gman, always there to restore the balance

morgoth, There's no way you'd actually say anything like that to me or durp in person without being dropped to the floor so just give it a rest on here. Also I made this thread so I will reply to whomever and whenever.

This thread was intended to be about ideas AFTER Godzilla vs Kong so that's what it should be about. If you feel you actually have an idea worth sharing that is related to that topic specifically then go right ahead and share it with us. I don't care if we talk GvK ideas too, but like Gman said, just be civil.

No aliens and MechaGodzilla, Legendary could do whatever they want with the MonsterVerse but plz no Aliens and MechaGodzilla, Those 2 could hurt the MonsterVerse especially MechaGodzilla, not because is unrealistic its because MechaG wouldn't make sense, why would anyone build a slow Godzilla like robot when they can build fast and agile Humanoid robot?
 

I actually would like to see a "common enemy" monster in GvK. It would be a bit disappointing to see just Godzilla and Kong.

How likely is this basic plotline for Godzilla vs Kong?;

Godzilla encounters Kong in some yet to be disclosed location. They fight and bleed each-other nasty for a bit. Then somehow a very powerful 3rd monster intervenes in the fight, attacking both of them. Kong and Godzilla realize they need to team up to fight aganist the common enemy. They eventually defeat the 3rd monster, but both are too exhausted to continuing on their duel. So they both just leave each-other in peace.

I am thinking that the alliance between Kong and Godzilla will be more of a Jurassic world team up of Rexie and Blue against the Indominus Rex, then a Batman and Superman team up in Batman vs Superman.

I agree, I see a team up whether we want it or not. I just hope when Kong and Godzilla do fight, it lasts longer than 10 mins like in BvS. That was very lame. Building up the story for a fight that barely lasted 10 mins. Every fan since 1962 wants to see a rematch. Do not make us wait 55 years and give us some half hearted ticket selling scheme. Let Them Fight!

@therizinorex I agree it makes no sense to build a slow, Godzilla like robot. But hear me out. MechaG works is if he is built by aliens. No people inside the robot(that ruins it for me). Simply use the same idea the 1974 version did. Maybe Godzilla is thought to be dead, so he is then cloned by some Transformers like technology to create MechaG. He is then sent to destroy the world, along with KG, only for the real G to show back up. I know it's a shot in the dark but that would be my ideal G movie. Combing Godzillas 2 greatest foes, while still having Kong at his side to help him.

 @riggzamortis I agree, I think it may happen whether we like it or not. But yes, please let the fight last longer than 10 freaking minutes!

@willnotbenamed I like that Jurassic World comparison a lot better than BvS. Mainly because I actually like JW. But the reason why I like that film is because they didn't call it Rexy vs. The Indominus Rex. If GvK intends to be a VS. film then that is what it should be. After all, the title is Godzilla vs. Kong.

i wouldn't mind seeing aliens. Aliens in a any Godzilla film will never be a stretch, i think, for the fans. same with a MechaG. they do have that Godzilla skeletal system from the first movie. maybe a kiryu thing? but yeah i think an alien MechaG would make a come back just fine in this series. its been a long time since we see an alien mechaG

Aliens is right up there with the Hollow Earth theory that's been introduced anyway, so they might as well at this point. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch if done in the same way they've portrayed the Hollow Earth explanation.

I originally was hoping for realism and stuff but I thought it over and I have changed my opinion. Now, I would actually like to see the concept of aliens get introduced, because it would allow for a lot more introduction of monsters and movie plots. I feel like, after a while, "oh they are a big prehistoric monster that has awoken" would get pretty boring. I would welcome the introduction of aliens because I feel like it would make it more interesting.

A mechagodzilla could be totally realistic in this universe just make up some bs about how his stature is more structurally sound for a larger scale weapon basically meaning we had to copy his look to get something that big with that many weapons to fight him.

If we can have monsters living below us and buy that I'll buy aliens and mechs anyday.

For the post-GvK MonsterVerse, if it will continue afterwards, we have to factor in the possibility that, when the rights to Godzilla lapse back to Toho afterwards, Toho may not be privy to continuing to allow loaning Godzilla, as well as other classics.

In this particular scenario, we have to work off of Kong and the MonsterVerse's original elements. Perhaps take the Phase 2 approach of the Marvel Cinematic Universe by way of introducing ancillary elements to known story backgrounds to monsters already introduced, as well as experimentation with less surefire properties. For example, perhaps taking a more concrete dive into the mysticism of Mothra by taking MONARCH to more esoteric locales that make them question reality as it is in a fantasy adventure flick.

However, now we must consider the possibility that Godzilla and potentially other classic Toho daikaiju will continue to be a strong presence in the MonsterVerse post-GvK. In this case, the same general principles as I've highlighted before remain intact, but now you have the esoteric cast of classic monsters necessary to add some extra star-power. For example, change that MONARCH fantasy adventure idea to involve Godzilla having to contend with increasingly esoteric abilities that go beyond brute force after his encounter with Mothra.

These are just my own personal thoughts, and are most definitely subject to change as the MonsterVerse continues to develop.

"I feel like, after a while, "oh they are a big prehistoric monster that has awoken" would get pretty boring."

Which is exactly what happened in the 1950s.

I may get flack for this, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like the MonsterVerse won't age well. Godzilla '14 is a fairly indifferent movie three years later and already the charm of Skull Island is starting to wear off on me.

If Godzilla vs. Kong ends up being the final film, that would be fine since Toho has proven they can be innovative with the series when the right talent is put behind the camera. It's not that I'm not excited about the upcoming MonsterVerse slate--No doubt the movies will be enjoyable at minimum. But recently I've been more interested in what Toho will offer post-Legendary.

I agree with G.H.Gman,

Toho did a fantastic job with Shin Gojira, honestly I think its the best installment since The Return Of Godzilla(1984). I hope there is as much Monsterverse as possible but I think it'll be a longer wait to see more Toho kaiju movies featuring Godzilla. Toho always does it better.

      I'm gonna have to disagree with the previous comments about wishing for more Toho movies after 2020. Shin Godzilla had some of the worst sound effects of all time and not to mention the scenes where missiles litterally just bounce off him. Really? I thought the special effects were terrible minus the night scene. Should have filmed the whole movies at night. I know a lot of G fans love shinGodzilla but not me. In fact, I walked out of the theatre the very moment a missile bounced off of Godzilla and it made a noise like a spoon hitting the floor. It was just too unrealistic for me. Now I know any monster movie is unrealistic being there's a giant monster in it, but Shin just struck me the wrong way. It felt like Toho was re using sound effects from a Mickey Mouse cartoon or something it was that bad. 

     Forgive me, I have been spoiled by Hollywoods top of the line special effects and sound effects. I feel as long as the Monsterverse can make it all the way to Destroy all Monsters I will be completely satisfied as a G fan,though I'd watch a million more if they are willing to make them.

    As long as actual Godzilla fans are directing these American versions they will stand far above any Toho incarnation(imo) I just don't believe Toho can compete with Hollywood on any scale of movie making. I do have a bad feeling Toho is going to want Godzilla back after 2020. But why would they if these American movies have made far more than any of theirs ever have? It makes sense to me to keep making Monsterverse movies post 2020.

       Hey I get it. Hollywood has got the big guns. they make the most profitable movies of all time and in the world. no one here can disagree with some of what your saying about Hollywood and other studios.

       But I think you might just not get what the director of Shin Gojira was going for. He wanted to re-used some themes from the classic Gojira(1954) and re-purposed them for his movie. Honestly no other director of any of the Godzilla movies did that. The reason the sound fx sounded old was because it was old. Like 1954 old. Godzilla's roar, the tank firing, and some of the score where all taken from the original Gojira movie. Japan really hated what Hollywood did to their icon. So toho saw an oppurtuinty to make another great Godzilla film.

     Its cool you don't like it, I'm just trying to possibly explain what you hated about the movie and put some kind of context to it. I didn't do it justice.

       I love the way Toho Godzilla movies look. One thing I think that we all love about the way the classics are is that the monsters look like we can truly touch these things. they are in terms of perspective "real". In these movies there is a Godzilla suit that exists out there and we can touch it. That idea possibly makes these movies feel real to us especially as children. The new Monsterverse is great, I love it, it brought back the genre, its giving Godzilla a new stage to explore. But the old sfx gave Godzilla a flare that only Godzilla can give. G14 didn't have that flare. I feel like that theme was lost in that movie. Michael Dougherty I think might bring that flare to G:KOTM. I hope.

Can't agree with TrapZilla in the least.

Shin Godzilla wasn't the greatest film ever. However, it was a step up from both of the MonsterVerse movies which are decidedly entertaining, but too commercialized and too Hollywood to be anything too meaningful.

I also agree with riggazamortis that TrapZilla didn't quite understand what Hideaki Anno was going for--At least in terms of the sound effects which were supposed to sound like the 1960s Godzilla sound effects and thus not very realistic. It was a stylistic decision and because the movie was much more of an auteur effort than either of the MonsterVerse movies, it worked fine. Quentin Tarantino does similar things with audio in his films.

Additionally, just because a director is a fan, does not assure that a movie will be good. After all, Hidiaki Anno was a fan and TrapZilla didn't like Shin Godzilla. The Strause Brothers were fans of Alien and Predator, but they made Alien vs. Predator: Requiem. McG was a fan of Terminator and responsible for the failure of Terminator Salvation. Peter Jackson was a fan of King Kong and all he could do was make an overly long, self-indulgent remake. Being a fan is fun for other fans, but it does not assure a good movie will be made.

And finally I don't agree at all that the Legendary productions have made "far more" over "all" of the Toho movies. The Toho movies treat their practical effects like an art form when put in the right hands--One of the things that makes Godzilla what he is are the practical special effects implemented in the films and how they're implemented. Even though Shin Godzilla delivered a CG Godzilla, it still had far more miniatures than most of us can spot. But aside from that, there are plenty of older films that push the 2014 movie into a middle-of-the-road flick.

I look forward to the MonsterVerse offerings, but I'm more interested in what Toho does post-MonsterVerse. Shin Godzilla just had more meat to it and I was impressed with what they did with so little. The fact that Toho's film makers have to be more resourceful than Hollywood film makers, due to time and budget, is more interesting to watch. Shin Godzilla was made on a budget of barely $15 million. I find that impressive. Godzilla '14 was made on a budget of $150 million and considering the end product, I was not that impressed... I don't expect Godzilla: King of the Monsters to be much better, but I do hope, at minimum, it's more entertaining than 2014.

^nuff said on that note.

^ I wholeheartedly agree with everything Gman said. An important thing to note also is that Shin Godzilla was a huge success, both critically and commercially. While Godzilla 2014, being a Hollywood blockbuster, obviously had a substantially greater worldwide financial gross, Shin was easily the objectively better-received film, at least among critics and Japanese audiences, and was more successful than G14 at the Japanese box office. Toho isn't producing the MonsterVerse films, so they aren't the primary benefactors of their financial success or popularity. I'm certain Toho has received a very nice payday from licensing the property to Legendary and distributing G14 in Japan, but it's obviously much more tempting for them to be able to reap all of the rewards by producing and releasing their own films. Shin Godzilla has opened a gateway for Toho to produce its own financially-lucrative Godzilla films once again and receive all of the profits themselves. It very much makes sense for Toho to want to resume producing its own films after 2020. In the long-run, they'd ideally make more money that way than simply continuing to license Godzilla to an outside company.

I agree with Gman, and the king of the monsters. Let's be honest and real here. " Toho can't compete with Hollywood in terms of film making." Really? What blatant disrespect to Ishiro Honda, Eiji Tsuburaya, Tomoyuki Tanaka, Akira Ifukube, Kow Otani, Shusuke Kaneko, Teruyoshi Nakano, and Teisho Arikawa who have made far more lovable and infamous films in the Godzilla series. 

Sure, Toho may not have proper CGI effects, but who cares? Honestly the Monsterverse CGI seems to get more and more half-assed in terms of special effects, and although Shin Godzilla, the monster itself is all CGI, most of the effects overall are far superior compared to Kong Skull Island. 

Toho is known for its supreme craftsmanship in Tokusatsu all thanks to Eiji Tsuburaya who invited the technique of this style of special effects, and their "realistic" storytelling about modern times in Japan or events that they have had trouble with in the past. Ishiro Honda makes storytelling at its finest while Hideaki Anno and Shusuke Kaneko are right there with him in storytelling. Has 2014 win any awards? No. Critics all across the globe praise Shin Godzilla for everything the film had to offer and it'll stand out through the test of time as just one of the few most important films ever made throughout the Godzilla series. It was so good and highly praised that it won 7 awards including best director and best picture. 

Like all the others, I'm eager to see where Legendary takes the next step, but Toho will always provide the better film. I don't see any Legendary film "standing taller all Toho incarnations" at any point. 2014 is probably more bottom-center of the road compared to many other Godzilla films already released prior in the last 60+ years. 

     Sorry guys I didn't mean to seem like I hated the Toho versions. They are all great and special in their own way. Godzilla 2014 is very low on my top Godzilla movie list,(mainly from cutting away from action) though it still has the best special effects/sounds effects out of any Godzilla movie of all time.

   I have G1954/GvMG 1974/TOMG being my top 3. (Major respect Ishiro Honda)(Goat). I also love all of the suits as it gives you that you could actually touch it feeling. I feel as if those latter 2 Toho movies had better sound effects than Shin did. I know y'all said the director was re using old sound effects from 1954, which sounds ridiculous to me if you want people to believe what's going on. But I just couldn't do it when the missile literally just bounced off of his face with that cartoonish "dink" noise. 

     It just felt so cheesy that my best friend and I both walked out of the theatres. I did notice the practical effects and those were very good. The first three life forms grossed me out so bad I was questioning if this was even Godzilla.

    Once I'm able to find it on DVD, I intend to watch the original then Shin directly after. I'm hoping that will help me understand why so many hardcore G fans think so highly of it. 

  I have very high hopes for KOTM after seeing G2014 and then the improvements made with Kong, aka actually showing Kong! You know what they say, 3rd times the charm.      

     Still can't get over the fact Legendary killed Hesinberg. Ahhh :( damn you Gareth

   Adam Wingard is supposed to be a pretty big Godzilla fan so I have very high hopes he's gonna give us something we've all been waiting for. I really wish they would put the Ifukube score in these films as well. It's like Star Wars with no John Williams.

 ^I get it. I actually walked out of Cloverfield right as the action started. my friends wanted to sit right up front and I got motion sickness from that movie. I walked out and thought it was terrible. Then it came out on DVD now it shares the same shelf with my Giant Monster Movie collection. I love it now.

Shin Gojira just came out on Aug. 1 so maybe you can check it out on your own time and give it another chance. if you lived close I would show you at my backyard theater. every month I show rare and cult movies to groups of friends on a giant projection screen. this month im doing a double creature feature. im showing Kong: Skull Island and then followed by Shin Gojira. Many of my friends have not seen either so I thought it would be fun to do instead of old horror movies for once. something that was made in the past 25 years. haha

Jumping in on the Toho movies and Legendary movies, while I agree Shin is better than G14, by a pretty large margin, I have a lot more fun with Skull Island than I did Shin. I think that with the way legendary is going, I'm looking forward to them a lot. I don't hate any of the entries in either universe, but If I had to rank K:SI>Shin>G14.

Maybe it's because I'm not the biggest fan of the millennium series as a whole, but because of those and overall Toho G movies, let's be honest Shin is kind of the best movie we've gotten from them in a while, and is a standout amongst their 60+ years with Godzilla. Not saying they can't do better, IMO they have, but I think looking at their track record it's more likely they do worse than Shin than better.

I agree that Shin was better than G'14, but I can't help but feel more excited for KotM than Monster Planet. I know people will argue all day about if Toho or Legendary is better, but I have to admit, I'm glad both are making Godzilla movies. Legendary can do the big popcorn flicks and Toho can do the more profound storytelling movies. The franchise has been both and there's enough room for both.