Ready Player One Kaiju Spoilers

I think the MUTO's are just that, "MUTO's" in the lengendary Monsterverse. To me, anything in this Monsterverse is a MUTO just like the "Kaiju" are Kaiju in Pacific Rim. Godzilla, Kong, The Skullcrawlers, the MUTO's are all MUTO's.

What does TOHO classify them as? That would be an answer that would possibly clear things up.

Like I said, Japanese monsters are Kaiju. MUTO's are not. Plain and simple to me.

On the argument of the design of the MUTO's. Like Gman said. Uninspired and another Hollywood Generic monster. They are unique to the Godzilla world for him to fight. But they are all too forgotten compared to the other kaiju and monster designs in any Godzilla universe or cannon. Hell, I think anything in the Hanna Barbara Godzilla cartoon are better than the MUTO's in 2014(here come the hate replies)! I feel like Hollywoods strange infatuation with this design is saturating other great ideas and products that could come out and inspire great giant monster movies here in the states.

Cloverfield is my only exception to the generalization of these movies. not so much the design but by the way it was shot and marketed. that was a great monster movie I don't care what anyone has to say about the movie. Generic design or not it was a great monster.

on the topic of Ready Player One, I cant wait to see this movie! Mechagodzilla sounds amazing! I really do hope the licensing in this movie allows WB to adhere to the monsterverse and allow MechaG fight!

I wouldn't mind after GVK that Kong fights MechaG in another movie. That would be interesting, Kong vs Mechagodzilla 2021! That would be so cool to me. Just saying.

I don't think the license extends to MonsterVerse, could be wrong.

DAMN!

MechaGodzilla's design does beg the question, "why?" I liked the design okay and all, but all the other characters/pop culture references were really spot on--Identical to one prior interpretation or another. It's interesting that MechaGodzilla was literally the only character that had a brand new design. Why?

Did Toho say it couldn't look like previous iterations? Had WB not secured the rights just yet so they made it look a little more like a "Mecha-saurus" until the license was secured? Did WB just want to make it look more like the 2014 design to push their own movie(s)? I'd love to know the background on that one.

My best guess is that Toho didn’t want to let them use the rights to an old MechaGodzilla and possibly destroy it’s character. For example, say WB gets the rights to MechaG 74 and makes him a good guy. But then again Gman you might be right about them just pushing the design of 2014 down our throats.

  Surely they had the rights secured. I think Spielberg would try and use something different like Godzilla himself or Gypsy Danger rather than a “mecha saurus”  I actually thought it was cool how they made him look more like a machine rather than a tin can copy of Godzilla. And as far as him looking like a dinosaur, I just don’t see it.

That is a great question to bring up. I like to think that Warner Bros. is testing the waters with this new MechaGodzilla and seeing what audiences think. If people like it, they can work it into future Monsterverse films. Of course this is wishful thinking on my part, but damn I'd love it.

The movie takes place in 2045 so who knows what design has MechaGodzilla gone through(Plz forgive me if my English is sucky).

"My best guess is that Toho didn’t want to let them use the rights to an old MechaGodzilla and possibly destroy it’s character. For example, say WB gets the rights to MechaG 74 and makes him a good guy."

While Toho is very protective of their Godzilla property, I'm not sure I can get behind that. Toho only has two trademarks for MechaGodzilla, "MechaGodzilla" and "Super MechaGodzilla"--The former is used for 1974, 75, 93 (without Garuda), 02 & 03. Haven't checked on '18 yet. I don't think they distinguish the rights by incarnation.

That being said, Toho allegedly told both Sony and Legendary that their Godzilla designs couldn't be a carbon copy of past Toho Godzilla designs. (The latter of which supposedly had major restrictions.) I can see Toho mandating a new design for some strange merchandising purpose.

GMAN2887 - I can certainly see your points with regards to Kaiju being Japanese. They gave this wonderful creation! However, Can we not share? The Japanese have large bars devoted to dressing up - and acting like - American cowboys. I do not see it as something as inflammatory as "cultural appropriation". I see it as sharing culture and ideas. Can we not create things to honor and celebrate the creations of others? :)

Something Real,
I don't think celebrating other cultures' creations and said creations being identical are mutually the same. The bars devoted to dressing up like cowboys is an interesting aspect to bring up, but lets be perfectly honest, are they actually cowboys? Of course not. It's sort of like how the monsters in Pacific Rim are called kaiju in-universe, but not really kaiju by trade.

The criteria as dictated by the genre is that kaiju, or more accurately daikaiju, are Japanese giant monsters. Any other criteria is sort of a headcanon/fan made stipulations created only to muddle the entire definition. When everyone has their own definition as to what it is then it has no meaning. There's point in using the word.

Does that mean we're not sharing culture and ideas? Of course not. Clover, MUTO and the "kaiju" in Pacific Rim are clearly inspired on kaiju of Japanese cinema. It doesn't make them kaiju, but it certainly lives up to the idea of sharing ideas.

GMAN2887 - Wait! I believe I understand what you are saying! You are speaking upon the maintenance of purity within the Kaiju genre as a whole in preference to "bastardization" through constant offshoots, yes? :)

This is a very deep conversation on kaiju's and giant monsters. I love this place.

I think its important to keep the respect intact when referring to a genre in particular. These monsters all have a rich history and background that enable us to look back and admire the technical achievements these movie monsters all went through in order to bring us all entertainment and joy.

There is no reason to combine all the movie monsters into one lump category. That's not right, or fair. Monsters from the states don't have a authentic category name but it never needed one. Giant Monster Movies sound just great in my ears as a Kaiju movie does.  

If we were to call the 1933 King Kong a kaiju, that takes away the originality of the movie and to the creators and special fx crew that sweated and bleed for this movie to come into light. The people behind King Kong were not trying to make a kaiju movie. They were making an action/adventure story about a giant monster and the complexity behind Kong himself.

Its important to remember these monsters for what they where represented for. If you sum them all into one name and category it takes away the identity of the creation and the reason for it and negates the purpose now.

For example, Rampage is not a kaiju movie. Rampage is cashing in on the Giant Monster Movie surge that's happening here in the states and along with the video game movie surge. Its killing 2 properties in one and now is the time to do it. It doesn't have the inspiration that say Godzilla or Kong has behind them. The monsters in that movie are imitations of other movie monsters that inspired them in the first place. To call them kaijus are silly and misrepresented. You wouldn't call a battery operated car toy for children an automobile? Would you?

to bring up another point in classifying genres.

In talking about music genres, I wouldn't put punk bands like Green Day or The Misfits in the same genre. Sure they are both punk bands but they are completely different in style and play. To say they are the same disrespects the originality and art of the music they are playing. Same goes for movie monsters. They are all movie monsters, but to say they are all the same sounds silly.

,':l

But regardless of country of origin, a punk rock band is still a punk rock band.

I'm not saying all kaiju are the same; I'm saying I don't think specifically being from Japan is the only requirement that can't be overlooked. It just leaves too many monsters that are clearly kaiju (Gorgo, Reptillicus, Pulgasari, etc.) in the dust.

^but clearly and obviously it does!

"But regardless of country of origin, a punk rock band is still a punk rock band."

I wont get into the music example, because this is not a forum for music and you clearly don't understand punk music well enough for me to tell you a thousand reasons why you are wrong. I don't want to embarrass you here and its not my intention to.

It almost is a requirement for a kaiju to be from one country and history and background.

Im sorry but there is nothing you can say that can make Gorgo, Reptillicus and other monsters a kaiju. By your definition of a kaiju, then the Iron Giant is a Kaiju. Right? He is tall, a giant robot from outer space. He must be a Kaiju.  

the same must go for The Collosal Man, Smaug from the Hobbit, The giant teenagers from Village of the Giants? Heck even Clownzilla from Killer Clowns from Outer Space must be a Kaiju by your definition. There is a reason why kaiju are kaiju. We cant call everything the same thing.

If you can spot the kaiju in these pictures. Congrats! You just proved my point to make. Not all of these monsters can share the name Kaiju. That doesn't mean that those other monsters don't have a place in cinema. They all have there cult followings and fans that don't need to categorize them along other film monsters. Gorgo, Reptillicus are not Kaiju, it doesn't mean they aren't loved any less than kaiju in cinematic history.

Being a kaiju only means that the movie is a different style and art form and representation. I cant make my point any more clearer than this example.

Now wait just a minute there. You're the one to bring up the punk rock example. If you think that the people here, including me, "don't understand punk music well enough" for that sort of thing, then why did you bring it up?

My point was that a punk rock band that originates in England is as much punk rock as a punk rock band that originates from America. They're both punk rock. It's not exclusive to America or any other country alone.

"By your definition of a kaiju, then the Iron Giant is a Kaiju.Right? He is tall, a giant robot from outer space. He must be a Kaiju.  "

Uh, no. Those weren't my requirements. My kaiju definition was the 2/3 system. Regardless, robots are different to me. In all actuality, I  find a hard time calling MechaGodzilla a kaiju, as he's really a Mecha if we want to be technical about these things. I, like most people here, just refer to him with all the other kaiju in the Godzilla series to keep things simple. But again, if we want to be technical now, MechaG's more of a Mecha than a Kaiju; same goes for Jet Jaguar and Moguera. Is Iron Giant a Mecha too? Dunno honestly; haven't come up with a system of identifying Mechas. There's waaaaay more giant robots out there than giant monsters.

Anyways:

The Colossal Man? Nope; doesn't pass #3: "Giant man"

Smaug? Nope; doesn't pass #3: "Giant wyvern-dragon" And before you say, "King Ghidorah", I say 3 heads, 2 tails, golden armor, and gravity beams. Smaug's just a big wyvern; that's it.

Teenage Giants? Nope; doesn't pass #3: "Giant men"

Clownzilla? Humorous, but not only does this come from a parody B-movie (I.e., not meant to be taken seriously), but it also doesn't pass either #2 or #3: It has no personality, and it's only a "giant clown"; no unique creature design.

I'm not at all trying to call every giant monster I see a kaiju; but I am beyond certain that being from Japan is not the only way a monster can be called one; even if it means classifying them as a sub-category such as "American Kaiju" or "British Kaiju" or whatever.

"Being a kaiju only means that the movie is a different style and art form and representation"

Then how and why are kaiju exclusive to movies that originate from Japan? Japan is a country; not an art form. Art is interpretive, artists are adaptable; case in point, the Spaghetti Westerns. All made in Italy, produced and directed by Italians, and yet they're still Westerns and we still call the characters in them western gunslingers because they stuck to the core rules of what a western was.

A german man invents the car and patents it in Germany; countries across the world make their own versions, still identify them all as a cars. Italy makes the original pizza; countries everywhere take the original concept and expand on it, yet they still call it pizza. America formulates the fictional version of the western gunslinger; an Italian man makes three movies inspired by them, and everyone identifies those new movies as the greatest Westerns ever made.

Japan makes the original kaiju, countries everywhere take the concept and make their own versions, and suddenly it's not a kaiju anymore? Something doesn't add up here.

" If you think that the people here, including me, "don't understand punk music well enough" for that sort of thing, then why did you bring it up?"

"My point was that a punk rock band that originates in England is as much punk rock as a punk rock band that originates from America. They're both punk rock. It's not exclusive to America or any other country alone."

I didn't say anyone here doesn't understand punk, Im saying YOU clearly don't understand what Im trying to illustrate that there are sooooo many different styles and genres of punk music that you just cant clump them up into the same thing. Nazi punk music is way different that say Ska Punk. Get it?" One is not like the other. But share in a similar style.

I have a feeling your splitting hairs here to prove an invalid point. Your 2/3 system is heavily flawed and I feel like Im wasting my time here if your going to use a system that doesn't apply here. Your requirements are just that, YOUR REQUIREMENTS and they should not apply to the universal definition here. No one else uses this system you pulled out of the air here.  That's why things don't add up to you here. You developed a flawed system that doesn't apply to anything else here. To consider Giant Men not Kaiju then I guess Frankenstein from Frankenstein Conquers The World isn't a Kaiju nor are the Gargantua's. Your splitting things you obviously don't understand or get.

I don't have to keep hitting my head against a wall here to prove what many know is true. Your lack of understanding here is too deep for one such as myself to try and pull you out of. If you must see your way of seeing many monsters as one thing in order to still enjoy them then who am I to stop you from that. I'm trying to enlighten you.   

^With your punk rock logic, it’d be like saying Tupac is a rapper and Lil Wayne isn’t, just because they have different styles. Makes no sense mate.

Would you guys call Godzilla 2014 a kaiju?

someone do a poll on this shi as welll

 No im not saying just because punk are different im trying to say there are different GENRE's of punk. If you listen to Green Day then go listen to The Misfits, you can clearly hear a difference between the 2 punk bands right? That's my point here. Im saying that giant monsters are not all the same thing. They are all part of different genres and categories of movie monsters. That is what Im trying to say. Punk Rock has many genres. They are all not the same kind of music get it? Gorgo and Godzilla are monsters right? but one is a Kaiju and one isn't. Get it? It was a poor choice on my part to try and use music as an example on trying to explain differences on movie monsters. That is my fault.

and polls only show number of opinions. People everywhere can vote on 2+2 being 5. It doesn't mean its true.

I personally don't consider Godzilla 2014 a kaiju. He is in a class of M.U.T.O.

"I personally don't consider Godzilla 2014 a kaiju. He is in a class of M.U.T.O."

Well riggzamortis86, you finally crossed into the territory I didn't want to break due to all the rapid fans against us. Good on you. XD

I agree though.

^oh no! Did I just put a huge target on my back!? I mean...until now I thought everyone was in agreement with that opinion.  I guess I just dug my own grave with that statement. 

Well I guess let the debate begin. I’m glad someone here has my back. Haha!

You crossed the Rubicon as far as I'm concerned. Applause for your bravery.

Oy vey this thread sure did explode since the last time I was on. O-o

I'll try my best here.

"there are sooooo many different styles and genres of punk music that you just cant clump them up into the same thing."

Okay great. But regardless of where that style comes from, it's still a genre of punk music. That's my point here. A punk rock band from England is still a punk rock band, and a punk rock band from America is still a punk rock band.

I never said my system applies to anyone else. I repeat my earlier point: everyone has a different definition of what a Kaiju is; it's not universal in the least. The only "universal" definition of a kaiju is the original one: "strange beast". And we all know how vague that is. As for the modern interpretation, I have mine, you have yours, other people have theirs.

"then I guess Frankenstein from Frankenstein Conquers The World isn't a Kaiju nor are the Gargantua's. "

Under my little system, they are kaiju. Frankenstein from FCTW and The Gargantuas are both from Japan: Golden snitch rule; they're kaiju. Not to mention they also fit #2, as they all have different personalities other than "must stomp; Rawr!", so they also hit the 2/3 system as well. Gargantuas hit all 3; there's no other creature that looks like a Gargantua.

" I'm trying to enlighten you.   "

,':l

I'll just copy and paste what you said to me in response to that: "Your requirements are just that, YOUR REQUIREMENTS"

"and polls only show number of opinions. "

Yes, but it would show what people generally believe. Again, the only universal definition of a kaiju is the original one; the modern one is way more interpretive. I must stress though, if we have a poll, we must make it unbiased. A simple yes or no to "Is ______ a kaiju?"; that's all you need.

"I personally don't consider Godzilla 2014 a kaiju."

You lost me. XD

Godzilla is Godzilla, and Godzilla is a kaiju; he's the dude that modernly defined it. You may not like the movie; that's fine. But it's so obviously Godzilla, and when you have Godzilla, you have a kaiju.

I can certainly see why people would want to differentiate between kaiju as purely Japanese and giant monsters from other countries. I agree to certain extent since it is a genre that was more or less created by Toho and other Japanese studios. Personally, I see it as a reference to how much of these films were produced as more of an art form than just plain monster movies.

The only part of this that really does bug me is this sort of disregard for the Monsterverse Godzilla. With Zilla, I understand, Sony/TriStar/Roland Emmerich abused the property to such a degree that it didn't deserve the monkier. But now Zilla is owned by Toho, so does that mean it qualifies more as a kaiju than the Monsterverse Godzilla? That just doesn't sit right with me. Yes it's an American production, but it's an American production of THE kaiju Godzilla. Say what you will about the movie, I have no specific love for it myself, but it got Godzilla right at least. If it's not a kaiju, then why the hell should we care?

Why all this discussion and debate and hype for 2019 if it's excluded from the club because it's produced in America? Plus, Legendary is owned by Wanda, so in a technicality it's an Asian produced monster movie (Well the sequels anyway). It's not like an American studio would hand Toho $160 million to make a Godzilla movie so it could remain "pure", no they can just make it themselves.

Yes, probably the best thing to come out of the Monsterverse is Toho making Godzilla films again, but that doesn't make the Monsterverse suddenly irrelevant. If all it's going to be good for is Toho making more domestic Godzilla films, then the Monsterverse should end if the fan base isn't going to give the movies their proper due.

I'm personally ecstatic that we have two concurrent runs of Godzilla series. Never in a thousand years would I have expected what we're seeing today. It's just disappointing that there's this running theme that the American films are fun little distractions and don't really matter, when let's be honest, Godzilla 2014 brought us here today. There's no guarantee that Shin, the anime trilogy or any future films would've happened without 2014. 

Sorry but I stand by my statement. Godzilla 2014 is no less "Godzilla" than any other rendition(98 excluded), but G14 is not technically a Kaiju. G14 is a MUTO in the universe.

Just like King Kong moves from classification to another in the monster world from kaiju to MUTO to giant monster, respectively. Godzilla also shares the privilege of nomad between monster universes.

Its not that I don't think less of G14 for it. Its just the way it goes. He still is Godzilla no matter what country makes a movie about him(once again excluding 98 zilla). Its like when an athlete goes and plays for another team. They are still the same athlete, just playing for a different team and city.

Monsters like Frankenstein, King Kong, The Wolfman(from that fan film made Godzilla vs The Wolfman), Zilla, and Godzilla all can be in or around this category when adapted to other films. But there is only  one requirement for one monster to be part of the kaiju club. It must be from japan in origin(period). G14 is not from Japan. made here in the good ol' USA.

I know I am not at any authority here to make this fact or not. But don't piss in my ear and tell me its raining.

Ohhh Ok, in universe that's fine. I see what you mean by that. Within the Monsterverse, Godzilla is a MUTO with the given name of Godzilla. You're referring to Godzilla in that universe by the way it is classified in that universe.

When you put it like that I can agree with it.

Is Godzilla ever actually referred to as a “MUTO?” As far as I remember, the 2 bug creatures were called MUTOs, and Godzilla was simply called Godzilla. They even refer to him as a God at one point. He’s Godzilla and he’s a Kaiju, Japanese or American. I think Pacific Rim bridged the Kaiju gap back in 2013 tbh

MUTO-Massive Unidentified Terrestrial Organism. Godzilla fits the description. In Kong: Skull Island, Monarch puts all those creatures on skull island under the class of MUTO. Kong and Godzilla both fit the bill.