The Tragedy of Shin Godzilla

Djdndnejwnwn

I want to start by saying Shin Godzilla is not evil. I know he rampaged through Japan but I do not think shin had any Malicious intent. In the movie it is said that it is possible for Shin to dominate the planet, but it not said that that is what Shin will do.

 Here is an excerpt from who will know that I’ve used to give you an idea of my reasoning.

I wear a void
(As long as breath comes from my mouth)
Not even hope
(I may yet stand the slightest chance)
A downward slope
(A shaft of light is all I need)
Is all I see
(To cease the darkness killing me)

Even though we know that Shin Godzilla is in constant pain and suffering, we learn that shin has hope. I thought this was interesting, and I wondered what would a creature in a constant state of sorrow and suffering have hope for?
And it’s obvious that Shin Godzilla didn’t want to die, from the lyrics. Then I realized, Shin wanted help.

The desire for someone to help them or at least know is expressed in the title, “Who will Know.” What makes this tragic is that Shin Goji couldn’t express himself, and by the end of the movie, was trapped by humans in frozen state of pain, unable to do anything.

This also changed my view of the ending, instead of becoming like humans to dominate, it changed to try to get them to understand. 

So after realizing that humans might be able to help, shin Godzilla evolved to go on land to get their attention. After making landfall, a confused shin crawls through the city wondering why humans were screaming and running away, and unaware of the damage it was making. After mutating, it saw man coming to it and was given hope, but was forced to leave due to the pain. Shin returned, hoping for the help, but was greeted with violence and had to defend itself, and in the end, humans froze Godzilla in pain, and before Shin could mutate to be like them to hopefully communicate.

That is the Tragedy of Shin Godzilla

Xenotaris

I don't know, Shin Godzilla didn't look like he had much going on upstairs, a lot of his mutations were reactionary rather than intentional.

Djdndnejwnwn

@Xeno

I disagree, he didn’t react to anything in his first evolution in Shi****wa, and the fifth form evolution would require him to figure out how man froze him

G theorist

True, an underwater creature suddenly finds itself thrust into a life of endless pain and relentless attacks. Not allowed to die due to its capabilities and always attacked by humans. Truly a story of tragedy.

Xenotaris

I wouldn't call what Shin Godzilla is going through an evolution because evolution involves sex/reproduction; I am aware he reproduces at the end of the film but at this point its less sexual reproduction or even mitosis and more like a metamorphosis like a butterfly than actual evolution. All of Godzilla's mutations remind me of metamorphosis 

Djdndnejwnwn

I just use the word, because that’s what they said in the movie.

Xenotaris

I know, its not your fault everyone in filmmaking misuses the word evolution. Its like in Antman and the Wasp: when the Wasp's mom was stuck in the subatomic world she said her change was evolution, I was sitting there like so you had sex with yourself and gave birth to yourself non-stop for over thousands of generations?

Xenotaris

edited: in entertainment media, I wanted to make that clear. I wasn't being sarcastic or mean spirited, its just a pet peeve of mine when watching, reading, or playing sci-fi stories

G. H. (Gman)

They're not using the word for its scientific definition though. According to Webster's Dictionary, another definition of evolution is, "the gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a more complex form," which is synonymous with words like "progression", "transformation", "expansion", etc.

So the word still applies in stuff like this, Ant Man and The Wasp, Pokemon, etc.

Xenotaris

It should be called metamorphosis rather than evolution or a new word to make the distinction from true evolution

G. H. (Gman)

It's not the first word with two meanings in the English language. Things get even more muddled when you consider the Japanese translation for "evolution" is the same for other synonyms like I mentioned above. I think it works fine.

Xenotaris

yeah except people in fiction mix the two definitions together and then people real-life can't tell the difference between the two evolutions then prefer the non-scientific one over the scientific one. Believe me I talk about this all the time with my friends and one of them prefers the Pokemon/Marvel evolution over real-life Evolution

G. H. (Gman)

All I'm saying is technically there's nothing wrong with it. If people misunderstand, that's on them and how much they care.

After all, people still call the Rhedosaurus from The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms a kaiju, so... Here we are. A world unknowing.

Xenotaris

wait Rhedosaurus doesn't qualify as a kaiju? why?
granted I never seen the movie but i had heard that he was mutated by nuclear radiation to become bigger and inspired Gojira (1954)

Let me guess it's either american, stop-motion rather than suitmation, or isn't humanoid?

I am aware of that the proper term is daikaiju. so which one is it?

Xenotaris

I did some digging and the Japanese release of The Beast From 20,00 Fathoms is called Genshi Kaiju Arawaru which translates to An Atomic Kaiju Appears. Now unless the japanese made a mistake on their own title movie conventions I think rhedosaurus should be considered a kaiju unless there is a concept that i'm failing to grasp here

G. H. (Gman)

It's not from Japan. "Kaiju" is a Japanese term.

See? If we're going to carelessly throw around "kaiju", I think "evolution" should get a pass.

Xenotaris

kaiju is more of classification than a single type of monster

Knights and Samurai are two different types of martial classes, similar but very different in functionality.

The evolution argument is way different:

The marvel/pokemon evolution is more akin to aging/metamorphosis which is a natural progression of a single organism that has stages like embryo, fetus, baby, juvenile, sub-adult, adult, and elder.

Scientific Evolution is a process of passing along a mutation or altered genes starting with the mating ritual and ending in the birth of the progeny. If the child has inherited the mutation from mom or dad it then has to seek out partners that share a similar mutation, rinse and repeat until the entire population has this mutation. This process happens faster when a fragment of the population is isolated from main population. Both population groups begin to show differences after a long period of isolation as they eventually become two new species.

Djdndnejwnwn

@Xeno,

Beat me to comparing the feudal systems of medieval Japan and Europe. Oh well, that’s the way it goes..

Xenotaris

 Also Knights vs Samurai

Knights are usually part of the nobility

Samurai were divided into three classes: Joshi (nobility samurai), Kashi (peasant samurai that serves a Joshi), and Ronin (a peasant samurai that has no master)

Knights may give their life for their Lord as long as its in battle or protecting the said Lord from poison or sneak attacks from assassins

Samurai would commit ritualistic suicide for their lords, if their lords ask/demand for it.

Then there's the cosmetic difference and the geographical differences

Djdndnejwnwn

But overall the systems are very similar which I find so fascinating. They weren’t influencing each other. Reminds me of Convergent Evolution 

Xenotaris

Yes it's convergent evolution as the same in biological convergent evolution, they may have similiar roles but otherwise completely different ancestry.

Xenotaris

Kaiju on the other hand doesn't have this since it itself is a broader term than just a single monster type. Kaiju is less like the difference between Knights and Samurai, but rather the noble/elite martial caste containing both.

Kumonga and the Giant Tarantula are both giant fictional spiders. To only call Kumonga a strange beast aka kaiju but not the Giant Tarantula seems odd to me because wouldn't the Giant Tarantula also be a strange beast?

I mean sure the giant tarantula is just a normal tarantula blown up to appear gigantic while Kumonga is a puppet but that's just special effects styles rather than a classification of monster

G. H. (Gman)

But samurai and knights both have armor swords, so obviously it's okay to call a knight a samurai.

^This is about as intelligent of an argument as the one for using "kaiju" or "daikaiju" for Rhedosaurus or the giant spider.

There's a difference between "kaiju" the translation and "kaiju" in the English vernacular. If we're using the word merely as a direct translation, then we should just call them "strange beasts" or "giant monsters" and stop calling them kaiju.

But we don't. So what's the difference between a giant monster and a kaiju or daikaiju? Why bother using the Japanese word if we already have an English translation.

And the answer is simple, we appropriated the word to mean a specific thing in our English vernacular and are now abusing it to mean other things. "Kaiju" is a Japanese word. It refers to Japanese monsters and beasts. It is not meant for anything outside of that. If it's used for anything outside of that it defeats the purpose of using it in the English language and you might as well just use "giant monster" instead.

Fans have ultimately and timely nuetered the meaning of this word to be a catch-all for anything they feel like.

"Evolution", on the other hand, can still mean "transformation," "metamorphosis," and "modification," according to the Oxford Dictionary as well. So technically, based off its second definition, it makes just as much sense as using "kaiju" to describe a giant spider--If we go off literal meanings and definitions alone.

In both cases you and I are splitting hairs, because you can still twist both to be accurate.

Xenotaris

its not okay to call a knight a samurai or viceversa because knights aren't gun-ho about honor to the point of killing themselves because their lords ask or demand of them to do so. Again knights are the lowest form of nobility while samurai can be of either noble or peasant background

G. H. (Gman)

Xenotaris

I'm saying your comparisons of knights and samurai is a poor analogy

Jordan502

I like the idea that Godzilla sees Humans as a pest, a plague. And knowing that it cannot destroy this plague alone, it proceeds to create it's own.

Djdndnejwnwn

@Jordan, I kinda like my depressing outlook on Shin. Goji 1954’s death was treated this same way, it was tragic for Goji and serizawa.

@Gman,

Question, If the word “Kaiju” means “a giant monster of a type featured in Japanese fantasy and science fiction movies and television programs.” then why are American monsters from Pacific Rim or the new ones from Kotm called kaiju? Or is this proving your point?

Jordan502

@SarcasticGoji

I enjoyed reading your outlook. I like it too.

Xenotaris

well the japanese see american monsters like Xenomorphs, Frankenstein, and Smaug as kaiju as well. Its just weebs hate when americans use the terminology

Xenotaris

GHman there is another about evolution you are over looking in your attempt to unify its definition.

Shin Godzilla/Marvel/Pokemon evolution is goal orientated and leads to an ultimate being/perfect state.

True Evolution is goaless, sandbox, freeform with both beneficial, neutral, and hindrance aspects to every adaptation. Specialists species evolve when the ecosystem is well adjusted and balance but the the enviroment changes like it has for 4.5 billion years, specialists are the first species to go extinct because they tend to get out competed by the new guy who is more adaptable before they too become specialists.