Is Godzilla an Avenger?

Godzilla wants to be left alone and live out his days in isolation. Gareth and Max say this, but because we woke the MUTOs up, he has to restore balance, because they act as a threat to Godzilla, and we have to pay the price for our arrogance. That is it. I don't need to dwell into this incredibly silly claim that he's trying to avenge anything. Not only does the packaging say they're ancient foes (who dont just fight when they cross paths, what kind of silly stuff is that? They've obviously hunted eachother or else the story would be pointless. Who wants to see a movie where Godzilla fights 'that guy he runs into from time to time'?) But it also says he awakens from his solitary slumber simply to end the threat that has awoken.

Action Figure Packaging

@GTBETTA35 - "Until a threat to his survival from an ancient foe forces him to appear." Thanks for that bit of information, now allow me to explain it to you. For Godzilla to be a creature of PURE INSTINCT he would not be allowed the ability to experience anger, only instincts that ensure his survival which translate into aggression, correct? That is what is defined as instinct at its basis, and its what animals are at their core. FROGNATION intiated a rather compelling thread that explored whether or not Godzilla could be capable of emotions such as anger. In that thread many interesting points were made but one fact remained certain, only beings of higher intelligence could experience complex emotions like anger, and Godzilla comes from stories upon stories that explore those emotions and intellectual abilities being accessible unto him. Heres the link if you want more details:http://www.godzilla-movies.com/community/forums/topic/33765

Now then, that being said and from what you've already stated, Godzilla should be incapable of anger or wanting to avenge anything, its slly right? Well, you wanna know what else is silly? Asserting that claim while attempting to argue that Godzilla wants to go out of his way, out of the safety of the ocean to confront two monsters that could potentially overwhelm him - doing all that because they pose a threat to his survival. But doesn't that seem rather odd for an animal, to remove himself from safety and reveal himself to the enemy thus giving up his advantage just to have a brawl? And taking in account that you believe him to be a paragon of balance, well that further complicates his basic instinct because now you are implying that Godzilla has some sense of right or wrong, some sense of justice, restoring balance is something only a being with those understandings can accomplish. Why else would he restore balance? Because its instinct to stand against evil and repel humanity's arrogance? What sense does that make? Thats not what creatures with lower intellegence spend time doing. Thats an act of a creature of higher intelligence, a creature capable of feeling complex emotions like anger, hate, fear, and the desire to avenge. No animal would ever put itself in harms way for the sake of anything beyond its own survival or the survial of its offspring, and certainly not to start a fight with a monster that is unaware of its presense, giving up the element of surprise and potentially endangering itself. That isn't instinct and it never will be.

yeah he probably has emotional qualities but I'm not seeing the vengeance thing. 

@JUNKERDE - Too true, but at the moment we don't know for certain what Godzilla's full mental capacity is in this film, so all we have to work with are present facts and speculation based off of said facts. GTBETTA35 seems to believe that Godzilla can't experience a desire to avenge the fallen but he believes Godzilla to be a herald of balance, or something meant to restore order if you will. I just explained to him that you can't have one part of the coin and deny the other. If Godzilla's purpose trully is to restore order, he'll have to undertand the basics of right and wrong, or else why would he want to do such a thing? The only other alternative is that nature made him do it and we both know where that discussion will go...

At the end of it all, we can't say if he can or can't experience these emotions and desires and as such, I would appreciate it if memebers, not you, would refrain from acting like its already confirmed that he can't.

Oh cmon, animals also get angry. But do they get the "I will avenge my people" emotion. It's more "f*ck off and die". 

And ts you can add "I could've used paragraphs so it wouldn't be an eyesore reading this" on the title when you do rename it.

Im just fuelling discussion. Saying your opinion amd getting your jimmies rustled when someone disagrees makes it seem that YOU think that your opinion is final lol.

@COCKZILLA - Impossible. It has already been scientifically proven that animals of basic intellect do not feel anger. They can be aggressive, but anger and aggression are not one and the same.

As for that last bit you mentioned, I don't even. I don't.

As far as Godzilla movies go, the revenge angle has precedent: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah shows that Godzilla takes things personally when family gets harmed.  It also has precedent in the real life animal world: mother elephants are known to go on violent rampages against human villages when their calves get killed by hunters.

As for the earlier misinterpretation of the title...can't you imagine how awesome it would have been if Godzilla actually joined forces with Iron Man, the Hulk and Captain America to take down supervillains?!

@FREE5 - Agreed. And elephants are not animals of mere basic intellect. As for Godzilla being a member of the Avengers, I don't think they would ever need S.H.I.E.L.D. again lol.

I see, I was wrong about the anger part and stand corrected.

But then, by feeling only agression, then it takes out the vengeful part and acting aggressive by instinct am I correct? No "I shall avenge my giganic people" shit.

@COCKZILLA - Thanks for the response. It seems you can be reasoned with, and as such I strongly recommend you reread the last response I gave for GTBETTA35 because I don't feel like explaining it again lol.

And i agree with the elephant thing though. I do not see with this godzilla though. As with their "ancient foes", iy seems they were the cats and dogs of that period. And they do not emotionally hate each other.

@COCKZILLA - Hey, if you're right than you're right. Everything you said could easily be true, but we won't know until we know. I just hope Godzilla has character like the older versions, that way he can be just as intelligent but equally terrifying.

When did I ever say Godzilla couldnt have emotion? I said he couldnt be vengeful. If I were to put a storm or a hurricane or an earthquake in a metaphorical piece, what characteristics would you give it (hint: angry ones)? Being vengeful and angry are two incredibly different things. Many animals have the ability to be angry yet do not have the capability to be vengeful. You're saying he can be vengeful, im saying he cannot be.

And I dont think you understand. Godzilla isnt like "oop, time to restore the balance! Those humans have had it coming!!!!!" He awakens because the MUTOs have awakened. He doesn't know that we have awoken them, nor does he care. He just cares about eliminating his threat. He will restore the balance unknowingly by accomplishing what he needs to finish. Godzilla is a metaphor for nature that still to this day is able to defy us by leaps and bounds no matter how much we try to keep it at bay. Try stopping an earthquake, try plugging up a volcano, try blocking a tsunami. The volcano doesn't know its buring a city, the earthquake doesnt know it's turning a city to rubble, the tsunami doesnt know it's engulfing a city. They just do. Can Godzilla be angry because his foe is among him once again? Yes. He IS angry. VERY angry. Thats the animal in him. Not the metaphor. But will he be vengeful? Not in the slightest.

@GTBETTA35 - I like you're conviction, I do, but I think I JUST stated that it is impossible for creatures of basic intellect to feel anger. That is not my opinion, that is scientific fact. If you want to agrue with that than you are talking to the wrong person. "He will restore the balance unknowingly by accomplishing what he needs to finish." Does Godzilla have something to "finish" GTBETTA? That sounds an awful lot like one's sense of responsibility, another trait unattainable to creatures of lower intelligence. Now if you want to believe that Godzilla can feel anger than by default you also agree that he is now pivy to a complex train of thought now host to a plethora of emotions, and yes, desire. Feel free to take that back if you like by the way, for Godzilla cannot possess higher level emotions like anger but be cut off from everything else that would come with being that intelligent in the first place. Anger requires an emotional component that creatures of basic intelligence lack, so in order to be angry you must also be beyond basic intelligence and thus, beyond basic instinct.

@SOMETHING REAL - I was begining to wonder when my wing-man would return, or wing-girl in this case lol :) But yes, that is, more or less, the fact of the matter put together in a well phrased nutshell my lady. What took you?

@SOMETHING REAL -  No worries lol. I've been holding down the fort.

@SOMETHING REAL - Bring it it on thread! 

@SOMETHING REAL - LMAO. YES. That comment was too good :)

Haha, the responses to this topic reminded me of Godzilla in the Marvel comics....

my head hurts from this. KAGE432- My opinion is that he isnt out to avenge his parent(s). I think it is just instinct. Destroy the enemy before they destroy you. Godzilla may be capable of vengence, i dont know, i havent seen the movie but i just think its instinct.

@ZILLAFORLIFE - Don't hurt yourself. We need that brain intact for future threads ;)

I would take your argument seriously if we weren't talking about a 350 foot, atomic ray breathing dinosaur who happens to stand the test of time. You want to throw scientific facts around Godzilla lol. I study animal behavior for a living. What You're saying is right on, but I don't think you understand that you simply cannot apply these rules to a being such as Godzilla. He is both complex and simple at the same time.

By 'finish' I literally mean finishing off his enemy, not a mission he was morally sent out on.

You're saying Godzilla cannot posses complex emotions yet you're willing to theorize that he acts out of vengance. 

@GTBETTA35 - Um, what? When did I ever say he can't feel complex emotions? That was you're claim, not mine. Reread the post. And I would take your response seriously if it wasn't loaded with ignorance. Godzilla is a sci fi monster but science fiction itself commonly uses imaginitive elements that are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated physical laws. What that means for you're argument GTBETTA is that this 350 foot atomic ray breathing dinosaur is still a dinosaur and will follow the logic that makes sense in the universe that Gareth has created that he HIMSELF has said will be realistic and grounded. Why else give Godzilla gills? Why give him webbed hands? Why try and make a story that makes sense in a fictional universe? Well, its because sci fi does not auto-translate into nothing here should be taken seriously.

I'm a writer and I too have built my own universe from the ground up but guess what? It still follows rules and logic so that it makes sense to my auidence or else they wouldn't even buy that it works in my established universe. If even that explanation escapes you then we're finished here. I've already spent more time explaining simple knowledge to you than I should have.