Godzilla Movie

the godzilla vs king ghidorah confusion and spacegodzilla

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godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-23-2014 6:13 PM

it has come to my attention that many people got confused the plot og godzilla vs king ghidorah 1991 because of the time travel, one of the big things that i have noticed is that fans keep saying that the two previous movies (godzilla returns and godzilla vs biollante) were removed from that universes timeline this is because they belive that 'that' godzilla was removed, and that also would dissmis the biollante part of spacegodzilla's creation, however if that godzilla was removed then why do the cast remember him, that is what time travel would do and if it was a totally different godzilla then how could miki segusa detect that paricular godzilla (she went into godzilla's mind in biollante movie), so clearly those movies were not removed and so they still happened, this brings me to my next point, some or most fans belive mothra had part in spacegodzilla's creation and the biollante part was wrong, if that's the case 1. spacegodzilla has tusks like biollante and 2. when spacegodzilla dies he turns into SPORES just like... biollante. there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the time travel thing in gvskg did not affect anything to do with godzilla. what do you guys think, does it make sense, should i explain more, still don't buy it. write down what you think

17 Replies

ゴジラ 2014 Rules

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-23-2014 6:54 PM

DUDE YOUR RIGHT AND WHERE CAN I SEE BOTH MOVIES 

dinoboy22

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-23-2014 7:01 PM

it did affect him, didnt it make him bigger?

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-23-2014 7:07 PM

No he got bigger in the present because they thought he WASN'T mutated and planned to use nukes to make godzilla, what they didn't know is that godzilla had already got mutated before the events of godzilla 1984 by a soviet nuclear powered sub un the 70's, (explained in godzilla vs king ghidorah)

npinkham19

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-23-2014 7:23 PM

Godzilla's previous encounters were deleted after the time travel. Plain and simple the reason he's still remembered and the events in those films get referenced afterwards is simply a sloppy script, giant plot holes.

 

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJan-23-2014 8:21 PM

I actually cleared this up in another thread, but I can't find it. The time travel actually did not delete Godzilla 1984 and Godzilla vs. Biollante. The movie is soley about the Heisei Godzilla's origin. Not the original monster. The fact is the Futurians ARE the ones responsible for the Heisei Godzilla's birth. The timeline for the Heisei series is as follows:

1944 - The Futurians go back in time from 1992 and transport the Godzillasaurus from Lagos Island to a Pacific Ocean trench.

1954 - Bikini Atoll tests awaken the first Godzilla who rampages Japan and is later killed by the Oxygen Destroyer. The Oxygen Destroyer begins mutating pre-cambrian lifeforms.

mid-1970s - A Russian nuclear sub sinks into the Pacific Ocean trench, mutating the Godzillasaurus into the Heisei Godzilla. (As Terasawa discovers from a news clipping in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah.)

1984 - The Heisei Godzilla makes his first landing on Tokyo and is later dropped in Mt. Mahara.

1989 - Godzilla returns, attacks Japan and fights Biollante. He is then infected with ANEB sending him to sleep on the ocean floor in the Pacific. Biollante's G-cells make their way beyond Earth.

1992 - The Futurians arrive from 2204 to plot a way to hold Japan for ransom. They return from 1944 after leaving the Dorats and take control of King Ghidorah. While they were gone Godzilla moves from where he was sleeping in the Pacific to the ocean trench where he was born. (Making everyone think he disappeared from history.) Godzilla then attacks a nuclear sub and absorbs the modern radioactivity which mutates him 20 meters taller. He fights King Ghidorah, attacks Tokyo and is later dropped in the ocean by Mecha-King Ghidorah from the future.

1993 - Battra and Mothra awaken due to Earth's pleas and Godzilla prompts them to join forces against him. Battra dies in the process and Mothra leaves Earth to deflect an incoming asteroid.

1994 - The UNGCC is formed and the remains of Mecha-King Ghidorah are recovered from the ocean to build Mecha-Godzilla for G-Force. Rodan is found and does battle with Godzilla. Both monsters attack Japan in hopes of finding Baby Godzilla and Mecha-Godzilla is destroyed as a result.

1995 - G-Force builds MOGUERA and the G-cells from Biollante (or Mothra?) have completed a mutation, known as SpaceGodzilla. It arrives on Earth and attacks Japan. Godzilla defeats him and MOGUERA is destroyed in the battle.

1996 - Bass Island explodes causing a massive increase in Godzilla's nuclear heart. Destroyah is formed from the pre-cambrian lifeforms that have been mutating since 1954. Burning Godzilla does battle with Destroyah who is finished off by G-Force. The remaining radiation from Godzilla's meltdown is absorbed by Godzilla Jr.

2100s - Japan becomes the most powerful nation in the world.

2204 - Terrorsits steal a time machine from the EUO to alter Japan's history. One of them returns from 1992 to salvage King Ghidorah's remains and fight Godzilla in the same year. Her mission is a success and she returns to her time with no changes to the timestream.

 

It all makes sense, really, it's just the writing was so sloppy that it left most audiences confused. The Heisei Godzilla series indicates a closed time loop of sorts. In other words, what has already happened, happened. The Futurians are the whole reason why the Heisei Godzilla was born and they didn't even know it.

A more detailed and thorough explaination of the movie and its time travel mechanics can be found in this article:

GODZILLA VS KING GHIDORAH: Time Travel and the Origins of Godzilla

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-24-2014 1:10 PM

oh and there is something else that was easy to miss but makes complete sense, when the future people came, they were from a time were nukes are banned and japan is the most powerful nation on earth, after king ghidorah is defeated by godzilla and emiko goes back to the future japan was destoryed by ''a monster'', so the events around the humans can change, but godzilla is a fixed point in time, both 1954 and heisei godzilla's creation are locked in time and any way of prventing their creation annot exist, also as long as their is nuclear weapons, godzilla will always exist.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJan-24-2014 1:38 PM

Good catch. That does seem to be the one hole in the fixed loop theory. While the Futarians caused the birth of the Heisei Godzilla it seems it was a fixed point. Grenchicko even says, "The birth of Godzilla was an unavoidable event."

It's possible that Emmi traveled into an alternate timeline, briefly, where Godzilla did destroy Japan. And then brought Mecha-King Ghidorah back to alter the timeline back to its original state where Japan prospers and becomes the most powerful nation by 2100/2200s.

OR, her superior officer at the EUO might have just been refering to that one event. Godzilla's destroyed cities in Japan numerous times, he could have referred to any event prior to Destroyah as a consequence and Emmi's return with Mecha-King Ghidorah could be looked at as a fixed point that simply avoided one of those rampages.

In the end there are still plot holes and inconsistancies, as with most timetravel movies, but the movie absolutely did not erase Godzilla (1984) and Godzilla vs. Biollante.

I also want to make a brief correction. The Godzillasaurus was mutated by a Russian sub that sank in the 1970s. Not bomb tests.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-24-2014 1:45 PM

yeah because many big godzilla fans like james rolfe aka. ANGN and others got confused and thought that 1984 didn't happen, biollante didn't exist and that the godzilla in the movie was a differenent one. it is so obvious that spacegodzilla is a decendant of biollante because 1. same tusks 2. when spacegodzilla dies his body becomes spores just like biollante.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJan-24-2014 2:23 PM

Well, that's not the only connection the movie, Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, has with Godzilla vs. Biollante.

Remember, Akira Yuki is seeking revenge on Godzilla for killing Lt. Gondo in Godzilla vs. Biollante. Which means the events in that movie still happened. Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of connecting the dots thanks to a great deal of sloppy writing.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-24-2014 2:31 PM

dam i knew that i just forgot to mention that, i still think the movie was good especially the godzilla and shindo scene (which is anouther point in the movie that is misinterpretated)

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJan-24-2014 2:53 PM

Oh, I agree. I love Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, even with it's laundry list of flaws. The movie really trips up on itself during the second act, but I thought Teresawa trying to figure out Godzilla's origins in the first act was interesting. And, of course, when Godzilla returns  the movie kicks into high gear.

There's some good stuff in this movie, it's just not wholly consistant to be a great movie.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-24-2014 2:56 PM

i also love that godzilla suit especially the buffed up chest

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJan-24-2014 3:01 PM

^This.

The Gido-Goji Godzilla suit is probably my favorite suit of the Heisei series! It really looked tall and beefy. If only it had the same head movements as the Moge/Desu-Goji suit, then it would've been perfect.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Kyero

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-27-2014 3:08 PM

This is an interesting debate, but ultimately I don't think it matters what the facts are behind all of this.

The single most important fact is this: Toho acknowledged that the writing of that movie was poorly done and thought out, and that it leaves many open holes in the theories and explanations.

Isn't that enough to put it down and say the idea is cool but could have used a stronger writer?

Kyero

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-27-2014 3:11 PM

Also, you guys do know that the Biollante and Mothra theories are still just that right? Theories?

Toho themselves never confirmed which of the two, if it was even either one of them at all, was responsible for SpaceGodzilla's birth. The tusks are cute in reference, but they are not confirmation of any kind beyond the shadow of a doubt that Biollante is the source.

Besides, there's a major issue with the Biollante theory.

If Biollante was the source of the mutation, then Spacegodzilla would have shared more in common with Biollante than Godzilla to begin with due to Biollante being the source material. Godzilla's genes within Biollante's cannot simply be stripped or isolated so that they can conveniently create a Godzilla shaped space monster. Space doesn't work that way because it's not a science laboratory where genetics can be manipulated at will. In a similar fashion as to why radiation doesn't just do what you want it to, space doesn't just do what you want it to.

In fact, Godzilla's flesh attached to Mothra would be the more likely candidate because it is solid 100% Godzilla source matieral. If Godzilla's flesh was attached to Mothra and broke off at any point during her travels for whatever reason and went through the black hole/white hole thing then that would be the perfect source material for Spacegodzilla since it's, again, 100% Godzilla.

Otherwise it would have been Spacebiollante due to Biollante's genes being a much stronger presence than Godzilla's in the genetic mix. If it had been Biollante's genes, then Spacegodzilla would have been Spacebiollante and looked like a strange, warped version of Biollante rather than simply Godzilla.

Besides, the whole Mothra and Biollante debate is rather pointless. We know that Spacegodzilla was a Godzilla inspired creature. Why bother with its true origin which was never confirmed even by its own creators? It's left open to interpretation for a reason, to give you an opinion on the matter to hold close. It's not something that's meant to create pointless debates like this.

But for those who want a more solid answer, the genetics don't lie. Biollante as source material would have created a much more Biollante inspired creature than something that looks near identical to Godzilla only save for a pair of tusks on the corners of his mouth. What else about him looks like biollante? Nothing really. His skin, spines, and even his general movements are all Godzilla inspired. The only thing that's even remotely close is his roar, which was actually Gigan's roar played back at a slower speed. The high pitched screech was similar to Biollante's yell in a small way, but it still isn't enough to confirm in any way that Biollante is the source material for his creation.

If you want the debate to end and a permanent answer found, find a Toho executive who was on board the creative process and ask them which it was. You'll likely get this as an answer: "Which do you think it was?"

godzillafan1995

MemberMothra LarvaeJan-27-2014 3:34 PM

that wasn't the point of this thread, the point was that the time travel in GvsKG had no effect on any godzilla, the point was that the events of those two movies still happned. check what happened to spacegodzilla when he died, what did he become because to me it looks like SPORES.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJan-27-2014 7:06 PM

@Kyero

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, nor do I understand why you spent so much energy expounding upon the birth of SpaceGodzilla-- something that doesn't need any more detail than it already has.

Toho has never acknowledged that Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah was poorly written, but writer/director Kazuki Omori did leave enough evidence throughout his movies about how it fits together. Was it poorly done? Yes. Does it make less sense than fans believe it does? No. Did Toho acknowledge it was poorly done? No. So I'm not sure what you mean behind that.

As for SpaceGodzilla's origin, I've always been of the mind that Toho should've said less about SpaceGodzilla than we got. Your big genetics explaination is interesting and all, but ultimately doesn't matter. SpaceGodzilla is just a cosmic variation on Godzilla and that's that. It doesn't matter which creature the G-Cells came from and it doesn't really matter how those G-Cells were mutated.

In the case of this thread, people were confused because they believed the events of Godzilla vs. Biollante were erased from time. That's not true, as I've explained and linked above.

 

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."
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