Godzilla Movie

Mothra Leo and Zilla Junior's Birth: A Lazily Made Theory

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TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 1:37 PM

The problem I have found: the asexual reproduction of Mothra Leo and Zilla Junior makes NO GOD DAMN SENSE!

 

It's said Mothra reproduces asexually... but Mothra Leo is not only a male (which shouldn't be possible under asexual reproduction unless using the ZW system, which I don't THINK Moths use), but has very different genetic traits and powers, which is practically impossible under asexual reproduction. Especially when considering every time she DOES reproduce in movies, it's Mothra twin SISTERS, and they are basically exactly the same. So how the hell did Mothra Leo not only become MALE (while the aforementioned ZW system is possible, I don't think many Moth species use it, if any. Still, even if that is true, why are all the other Mothra offspring female in every other continuity?), but inherent almost completely different genes and powers? I swear, something fishy is going on here. 

 

Then there's Zilla, who's "male", but is able to reproduce asexually and carries EGGS, but not sperm as far as anyone knows, so how is Zilla male? And then Zilla Junior is much larger, stronger, smarter, etc than Zilla was and clearly shows different genetics, on top of being male and confirming that males of the species are STERILE. But the only other member of his species that could reproduce at all, and ASEXUALLY on top of that, is Komodinatrix, a known FEMALE. So not only does it make no sense for Zilla to be male, but again, the offspring shows different appearance and abilities, so asexual reproduction doesn't seem to fit either...

 

So, how does this make any sense at all?

 

Well, here's my theory:

 

For Mothra, maybe her species evolved to be able to use the ZW system, if moths can't use it. At the same time, the polluted air in the atmosphere, the high amounts of radiation, and the fact he was born during his mother's fight against Desghidorah caused deformations in Mothra Leo, resulting in his different appearance and powers. Still, slim. Maybe males of Mothra's species have these abilities and females don't? Maybe there was a male of Mothra's species that hadn't been discovered yet, and the two mated and produced Mothra Leo, which explains the different gender, appearance, and powers if the father possessed certain genes that would have bestowed these abilities onto Mothra Leo.

 

For Zilla, there's a much less complicated solution, in my opinion. For Zilla, I believe the creature was actually female the whole time, and not only NOT reproducing asexually, but was actually pregnant before her mutation. This would explain why Zilla Junior has different genetics, because he's carrying his father's genes. It also explains why he's sterile, because of deformations in the egg, he ended up being irradiated and unable to reproduce. But why did everyone in Godzilla 1998 call Zilla "he" then? Well, usually they called Zilla "it" if I recall, but say they did call Zilla "he." Well, to quote Ian Malcolm, "But again, how do you know they're all female? Does someone go into the park and, uh - - lift up the
dinosaurs' skirts?" Besides the fact that I don't really believe they KNEW Zilla's sex, I do also believe they wouldn't have bothered to check. Why? Well, a giant monster is attacking the city, and most of their weaponry is proving useless against it, and their only hope lies in a damned worm doctor and french special agents. Do you think they'd bother to check whether or not it's male? And then there's Nick, who again, probably didn't realize, or if not, just didn't care. I mean, if you're a worm biologist tasked with coming up with a plan using French special agents and the American military to fight a giant, radioactive lizard and you have only a few hours to figure out how to do so or else your entire town or maybe even the world is killed by it and its children, would you bother to correct people, or even yourself from calling it "he" if it's a female? Plus, even if they all knew, they'd probably call Zilla "he" for the same reason people called Roberta in Jurassic Park (book) "he"- it just suits more, apparently. 

 

So, long theory short, Mothra Leo is likely the result of sexual reproduction instead of asexual reproduction, or Mothra's species evolved to be able to asexually reproduce under the ZW system (even then, the chances of her having daughters would be SUPER slim, so that doesn't seem to work) and males of her species are the only ones with Mothra Leo's powers. Zilla was probably female and pregnant with her children instead of being an asexually reproducing male. The reason nobody called Zilla a "her" is because they were calling Zilla "it" usually and also because they didn't care since she was, you know, destroying New York and was about to create about 400 more of herself. 

 

If there's anything to take away from this, the asexual reproduction explanations for the birth of both Mothra Leo and Zilla Junior is sketchy at best, and pretty much impossible at worst. Then again, we're talking about a giant, somewhat magical moth and a giant, radioactive iguana, so I think realism was kinda thrown out the window awhile ago.

 

Also, if anyone else has an explanation for these sketchy situations, please let me know in the comments. These explanations have always irked me, and I'd like to hear a logical explanation for them.

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

56 Replies

JurassicKaiju14

MemberTitanosaurusDec-13-2019 1:44 PM

I always chalked Mothra up to it just being magic or something.

And as for things not making sense, wait till you see what I have in store for Mechagodzilla...

A true fan can acknowledge the bad while still appreciating and cherishing the good.

SciFi Explained

MemberMothra LarvaeDec-13-2019 1:47 PM

Mothra is a diety, a god, and therefore can't be compared to normal animals, or even kaiju for that matter.  As for zilla, its both male and female, the film says male, but that isn't technically correct.  AS for zilla jr....different film universe, so not related really.

Gmkgoji

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 1:53 PM

I dunno how. It's called plot convinence.

Zwei Wing is the best singing duo. Change my mind.

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 2:12 PM

SciFi Explained

A diety that keeps dying lol. But I see your point. Still, why did she all of a sudden have a male offspring while all her other children were the practically identical twin sisters?

 

Zilla Junior isn't really a different film universe. It takes place after Godzilla 1998, and uses the same characters and backstory. Even if we were to say "different universes", Godzilla 1998 would have happened practically EXACTLY the same as it did in Godzilla The Series. 

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-13-2019 2:36 PM

All the responses make sense- from magic to being deities to plot convenience. It is fun to pick apart scifi movies but the Monsterverse seems to be an exception. It's got huge creatures that are over the top. There should be a suspension of what is real and accept the Monsterverse on its own terms imo.

I would give some plausibility to Mothra's and Godzilla's apparent confusion on gender. A real world example is the humble Seahorse. Enjoy this video that is less than 3 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaVcdYx0qWY&t=54s

 

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 2:38 PM

I mean, male seahorses are the ones who carry and take care of the eggs, but that's different because here Zilla is supposed to be a male LAYING eggs. And Mothra is reproducing asexually, but somehow gives birth to a creature with very different genetics and powers.

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-13-2019 2:42 PM

Like the Space Jockey mystery of Alien, maybe it's best to leave some things a mystery and never be officially answered. That's most of what makes forums fun in the first place.

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 2:59 PM

dk

But then what is the point of a question, if not to ask it?

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-13-2019 3:11 PM

 TheLazyFish I will try to be clearer. Questions should be encouraged if for no other reason to spark spirited debate. The "What if" that is the very core of scifi. Look at your own thread and see the ideas expressed. There is no definitive answer but members are having fun and using the ole' noodle to explore something we all love. I guess the Monsterverse should be fair game too. It is just so out of proportion that it seems a given to not nitpick too much.

Sounds pretty sappy but there it is.

 

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 3:33 PM

dk

Yeah, that's definitely the fun part. Being able to partake in an interesting discussion about curious things in something we love!

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 3:34 PM

Oh god, it DOES sound sappy when I (say? type?) out(loud? keyboard?)!

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

IamNobody

MemberMothra LarvaeDec-13-2019 7:33 PM

I veiw mothra's creation of an egg as normally as something more akin to the birth of a Phoenix and is some form of matter creation to create a clone. however, i feel Leo's creation was the result of mothra actually having mated with Battra. 

we do not know the organ system of Zilla and just that his father was able to reproduce asexually somehow. 

 

MinecraftDinoKaiju

MemberTitanosaurusDec-13-2019 7:41 PM

So getting back on track, I feel that Mothra Leo is supposed to represent the male of his species.

And I have officially started to accept that Zilla in Godzilla (1998) was a female, and that Zilla Jr. is actually a representative of the true males of the species.

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-13-2019 9:18 PM

Godzilla 1998 seems female due to the eggs, but then we could speculate on that. Was Godzilla able to inseminate eggs it already had? There was no evidence of another creature for copulation. It would seem that it was able to somehow lay multiple fertilized eggs in a football stadium (leaving the stadium undamaged lol!) I think it was probably an oversight on the writers' part and the producers may have thought the general audience wouldn't notice or ask any questions. 

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 9:35 PM

dk

Unless Zilla was already pregnant when it mutated, or there actually was an unknown male counterpart. As confirmed by the show, there were plenty of "mutations" that already existed in the world that were never discovered, including another of Zilla's kind (Komodinatrix). So, an unknown male counterpart isn't entirely off the table.

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-13-2019 9:50 PM

 TheLazyFish It has been about 4 years since I saw 98. I saw no evidence or hint of prior impregnation. It is possible it was already pregnant at the beginning of the movie, but I think that would be a stretch for even casual viewers to make that connection. 

Then again, I think the behavior was mentioned that or at least hinted that Zilla may have been seeking a place to nest?

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-13-2019 10:01 PM

dk

Which is precisely why I believe that Zilla was already pregnant and didn't just randomly decide to have offspring. Besides the fact New York is incredibly far away from where Zilla originally lived, as well as there many opportunities for a good place to lay her eggs beforehand, I find it unlikely ZIlla decided to lay her eggs on a whim as much as out of necessity. Also, I doubt they would REALLY care if she was pregnant beforehand because GIANT MONSTER DESTROYING NEW YORK THAT'S LAYING EGGS TO MAKE 400 MORE OF IT AND OUR ONLY HOPE IS A WORM BIOLOGIST AAAAAAAH!!!! They kinda had... other concerns lol

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-13-2019 10:55 PM

Then it begs the question- how did Zilla become pregnant? 

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaDec-13-2019 11:18 PM

Nearly 20 years ago I was presented with storyboard and production art from Mothra vs. Godzilla claiming Mothra, being a goddess, does not reproduce, she is simply reborn. The laws of the natural world don't apply to her and trying to shoehorn her as a "species" is the wrong way to go about it--Especially since science couldn't explain her in her debut film. (Which is the point.)

The storyboards and production art (that I wish I had saved) revealed the two Mothra larvae that hatch in Mothra vs. Godzilla are both the same Mothra that died. She's simply using two bodies because she realized two would be needed to defeat Godzilla. When one of them died before Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster, it was because Mothra knew both bodies were no longer needed. This idea is heavily based on Buddhist beliefs.

I don't know if this same point-of-view applies to every continuity, but the Cosmos made it sound like the Mothra that hatched in Godzilla vs. Mothra '92 was somehow the same one that fought Battra millions of years ago. Perhaps it was, just in a former body.

It also needs to be made clear that the 1990s Mothra Trilogy stands on its own and is not a sequel to the Heisei Godzilla series or the original 1961 Mothra. Regardless, it's possible Mothra simply felt the need to reincarnate as a male for a change. And the fact Mothra Leo hatched while Mothra was still alive isn't an issue since the Showa series insinuated that she can be two entities at once--Plus the international titles for the Mothra trilogy are literally, Rebirth of Mothra, 2 & 3.

Even Dougherty seems to buy into Mothra's spiritual life cycle, claiming, "she knows it."

It appears Mothra is simply a physical form/manifestation for some sort of omnipotent god to interact with our physical world. How and why is above us. All we know is she's here and she can't die.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-14-2019 11:00 AM

G.H. (Gman)

Thanks, that really cleared things up for me. 

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

MinecraftDinoKaiju

MemberTitanosaurusDec-14-2019 6:36 PM

@G. H. (Gman)

And what's the long explanation for Zilla in Godzilla (1998)?

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaDec-14-2019 9:00 PM

It's garbage.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanDec-14-2019 10:19 PM

Are you talking about my theory for it or the actual movie, because either way you're right lol

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaDec-14-2019 10:42 PM

The actual movie. I have no desire to look any deeper into that film than I already had to endure in 1998 and the immediate years that followed.

The movie wanted raptors, but it also wanted Godzilla to be a dude. So he was dude that had baby raptors. They thought through it about as well as anything else in that dumpster fire.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

dk

MemberGodzillaDec-14-2019 11:18 PM

I enjoyed 1998 for what it was but can agree with people hating it for stepping out on the established canon/mythos. Back then, there was a lot of new research being done on dinosaurs and Jurassic Park was a juggernaut. It seemed like 1998 wanted a piece of that pie with a more agile creature and it was important that the tail didn't drag on the ground and was more lizard like. 

Since the franchise has changed hands over the past half century, I try to enjoy each movie on its own. The last Godzilla marathon I watched was out of chronological order and there wasn't much continuity. After a while of binge watching, it became a blur. I do remember the ones I liked most were the Toho movies though. Just a matter of opinion.

As for off shoots- I never liked Godzookie. It was just stupid.

It would be interesting to see a movie or even an hour long movie dedicated to Mothra only with no Godzilla. That could spur dozens of shows highlighting each character from the monster verse. For all I know, some one may have done it?

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaDec-14-2019 11:37 PM

dk,
There are 4 Mothra movies with no Godzilla. Mothra had her own solo film 3 years before she entered the Godzilla franchise.

Mothra was based on a standalone Japanese novella.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Xenotaris

MemberGiganDec-15-2019 3:31 AM

Well Roland Emmerich did hate Godzilla

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

JurassicKaiju14

MemberTitanosaurusDec-15-2019 4:41 AM

G. H. (Gman) Out of curiosity, have you read the original Mothra novel?

A true fan can acknowledge the bad while still appreciating and cherishing the good.

JurassicKaiju14

MemberTitanosaurusDec-15-2019 4:44 AM

Xenotaris So he basically didn't give a care about what he was doing with the character. Which is how we wound up with Zilla (who I don't think is necessarily a bad monster in his own right, but he's a lousy Godzilla outside of the animated sequel series).

Y'know, say what you will about the MonsterVerse movies as a whole, but at the very least they put in actual effort to get the monsters right.

A true fan can acknowledge the bad while still appreciating and cherishing the good.

Xenotaris

MemberGiganDec-15-2019 6:35 AM

personally I love Zilla and even consider it a type of Godzilla, just wished it had its atomic fire breath and was a little stronger. I am with LazyFish and MinecraftDinoKaiju when saying this, I believe Zilla should have been considered a female rather than a male but Roland Emmerich decided that his Godzilla had to be a male no matter what even to the point when it defied biology.

I think Zilla/Godzilla98 needs a second chance to shine, perhaps the monsterverse could elevate this kaiju to Godzilla status?

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE
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