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Singular Point Spoiler Discussion

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G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-16-2021 11:01 AM

With the last episode of Singular Point having aired in Japan and the series dropping on Netflix in North America next week, here's the place to talk Singular Point spoilers.

It's pretty clear now there will be "Season 2" (or rather a second cour) based off the post-credits scene. The show merits rewatch just to understand the hard-fi science which is exciting given the easy access to Netflix next week.

I can't wait to rewatch it myself. And I'm looking forward to the future with Ashihara's MechaGodzilla.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."
50 Replies

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-16-2021 11:32 AM

I havent seen episode 13. but will come back when I have

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-16-2021 12:31 PM

Oh Wow, That was definitely worth the wait. The ending was interesting. Based on the blue coloration of the crystals, I bet thats a different phase of Archetype. 

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

g-man fan

MemberBaragonJun-16-2021 4:43 PM

cant wait until season 2 then we will see the new mechagodzilla in action

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-16-2021 5:32 PM

Im wondering how theyll continue the show, it seems theyve explored a lot about archetype already. Maybe introducing a new material?

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-16-2021 5:50 PM

HinikunaGoji,
There's still plenty of questions yet to be answered. Such as the voices in the first episode? Or where has Ashihara been? How did the monsters emerge in our dimension? What was the Shadow Rodan? (Though I don't really feel like we need an answer to that one.)

It will definitely tackle new material while addressing plenty of plot threads leftover. It'll be interesting to see the state of the world post-Catastrophe. I'm also excited to see the potential of Yun and Mei side by side next season.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-16-2021 5:57 PM

G. H. (Gman) 

Im pretty sure those voices were the jet jaguar ai children things.

it says avoiding the catastrophe not stopping it, so maybe theyll have to completely stop it.

Or where has Ashihara been? How did the monsters emerge in our dimension? valid points

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

BigGrayGolem

MemberMothra LarvaeJun-16-2021 7:48 PM

Again, I was pumped for this show, and loved the first few episodes, the overall tone, the kaiju designs, and the animation. 

But just can't get past the wonky (and, if one is honest, largely nonsensical) physics stuff, and the fact that it took 13 episodes to get a "final battle" that lasted all of about three minutes. 

These characters were really likeable, too, but completely undeveloped. This was six hours of exposition with a very, very weak payoff.

The blue crystal ending was cool, but -- again, if we're honest -- the final speech by JJ was just emotional tugging, and didn't actually mean much. They literally said this was all "about becming more human and learning about humankind." If that's supposed to be a metaphor, it doesn't work. If it's supposed to literally be JJ's point of view, well, he never really became "more human" in any way that appeared on screen. If anything, his AI devolved since the earlier episodes.

I did like the discussion of inevitability at the end, but it hardly explained anything, and really came off as someone trying desperately to sound "profound."

Godzilla is like sex or chocolate cake -- even bad Godzilla is better than no Godzilla. So overall, for me, Singular Point was "meh plus." Great kaiju designs, amazing animation but hobbled by an "auteur" who needs to get out of his own ego.

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-16-2021 8:44 PM

I liked the ending, I dont watch godzilla for action. it depends on your taste

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-16-2021 10:50 PM

Indeed. I loved the Jet Jaguar vs. Godzilla battle and thought the payoff of an enlarged Jet Jaguar that completed its programing from the past was fantastic. Not too concerned with how "long" the battle is as long as the stakes are high and the drama works--Which it did. If I want longer battles I have a backlog of 36 movies to pick from.

I'll have to agree PP Jet Jaguar's final speech was reaching for some themes that weren't expounded upon earlier and I preferred the more procedural approach from the characters over emotional. Not that they were detached from saving humanity, as they were clearly passionate and invested in the situation leading to their responsibility toward stopping the catastrophe. However, their personal lives were not the center piece of their characters.

I get some people don't enjoy the "pretentiousness" to it all, but after the Monsterverse, I'm happy to have a Godzilla story that swings the pendulum very, very far in the opposite direction. However, labeling these variables as an "auteur's ego" is a fairly presumptuous label for a writer's enthusiasm.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

KingKaijuGojira

MemberTitanosaurusJun-17-2021 5:33 AM

I loved Godzilla Singular Point. I have a few questions left but I thing these are my main ones: What happened to Godzilla after the fight? What happened to the other Kaiju? Are those moths all individual Mothras or are they going to combine into one larger Mothra? Will the Kaiju still need the red dust to survive or will the evolve to survive without spreading it? (not that I don't like the concept of the red dust, I'm just curious since it all became blue crystals.) I can't wait for season 2.

\"SKREEONGK!\" -Godzilla

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-17-2021 4:28 PM

KingKaijuGojira

I wanted to explain your red dust question. The only kaiju directlybstated to need red dust to survive are rodans. 

Interestingly the red dust different phases seem so different, when being the same substance because of the shadow analogy, that BB makes. Seeing a four demensional object take different phases would look different materials.

Im not sure I want the mothras to merge, but one to develop and grow big. And yes I assume theyre Mothras.

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

BigGrayGolem

MemberMothra LarvaeJun-17-2021 8:21 PM

Yeah, I still don't understand it. If the Rodans needed red dust to survive, how did they appear in the beginning without out? The dust came later. The song called them, but then the song wasn't responsible after all for their appearance?

I'll chalk some of this up to bad subtitles, but it was so confusing, I think the producers lost track fo what they were doing.

Clearly the appearances of some of these kaiju was fanservice. The Hedorah goo? The Mothras that had no impact on the story at all, and simply disappeared the episode after they appeared? Kumongas that look like Kumonga one minute, then Kamakaris the next?

Then there was an entire appearance by Anguiras which was supposed presented as a plot point to give JJ the "battle weapon" he'd need to defeat Godzilla (because the horn could predict attacks before they happen), then he doesn't even use it in the final fight. What??

It's too bad, too. The idea of creatures that could evolve in real-time was interesting. The idea of them being the 3D result of some 6+D dimension was interesting. The idea of monsters that were hard to beat because they had precognition was terrifying.

But too many ideas dropped so they could introduce new ones just as fast. 

Still miles better than Planet Godzilla ("hey, let's make a show where Godzilla takes a whole episode to move four inches"), but I'm concerned with the direction that the Reiwa era is shifting Godzilla. In each outing, Toho gets a mere few minutes of footage that are memorable (Shin G's breath attack is astonishing, and instantly iconic), surrounded by HOURS of exposition and flat characters. 

At least the Showa and Heisei human characters were interesting, even when annoying. These new scripts are pumping out characters that appear written by an AI bot.

 

KingKaijuGojira

MemberTitanosaurusJun-18-2021 6:02 AM

HinakunaGoji, I assumed that all Kaiju need it since they constantly emitted it. Though, looking back, Anguirus and Kumunga didn't need it. So I'm changing my question to do the kaiju who emit it, like Godzilla, actually need it to survive? Can the Rodans evolve to not need it?

The Godzilla skeleton was referred to as "bones with a will." Does that imply that MechaGodzilla is finished, it may go berserk like Kiryu did?

\"SKREEONGK!\" -Godzilla

KingKaijuGojira

MemberTitanosaurusJun-18-2021 6:02 AM

HinakunaGoji, I assumed that all Kaiju need it since they constantly emitted it. Though, looking back, Anguirus and Kumunga didn't need it. So I'm changing my question to do the kaiju who emit it, like Godzilla, actually need it to survive? Can the Rodans evolve to not need it?

The Godzilla skeleton was referred to as "bones with a will." Does that imply that MechaGodzilla is finished, it may go berserk like Kiryu did?

\"SKREEONGK!\" -Godzilla

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-18-2021 10:42 AM

BigGrayGolem

They needed it to survive extended amounts of time. A fish doesnt immediately die when taken out of water.

I dont feel that the show lost track of itself. It was very focused and my irk was that we didnt see Ultima enough the payoff was enough for myself and others I know.

”Clearly the appearances of some of these kaiju was fanservice. The Hedorah goo? The Mothras that had no impact on the story at all, and simply disappeared the episode after they appeared? Kumongas that look like Kumonga one minute, then Kamakaris the next?”

I dont see your problem in this. Much of the kaiju were original, like the Kanegas, not kumacras or kumongas. The hedorah just showed how weird kaiju get, which resoldifies this idea in the audiences mind. At least the “fan service” comes with good writing. For example I thought the mothras helped the Apocalytic themes in episode 11. 

 

I honestly dont see why you take so much issue with the characters. Like shin godzilla there is no time. Theyre all rushing and especially when Mei learns of the catastrophe. Its not traditional character work, and In my opinion doesnt detract from the story. 

One thing I love about the show is it isnt the normal format. Its Godzilla Comes and they stop him. They know hes coming and have to try to prevent him, and dont stop the catastrophe, they avoid it. (avoid is always used not stop)

KingKaijuGojira

Its very evident not all kaiju need the archetype dust as you said. I do not think Goji needs it, bu using it to turn earth into the demension where Goji came from.

Can the Rodans evolve to not need it?

Maybe. I mean anything is possible.

 

Does that imply that MechaGodzilla is finished, it may go berserk like Kiryu did? 

No I do not think so, we saw that in GvK recently. The bones were emitting the song which attracted the rodans, but I think SHIVA was the source not the bones. So I think theyre just bones.

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

MilqueChocolate

MemberBaragonJun-19-2021 10:12 AM

After finally finishing the show, I can honestly say its one of my favorite animes. The story-telling was there, the character building was solidified, and the monsters were satisfying to watch on-screen. Godzilla was portrayed really well here, and I love that they played with the cinematography to really ground him as a God in his own right. I can't wait to see this again.

BigGrayGolem

MemberMothra LarvaeJun-19-2021 11:09 AM

I think what we see here is that the show is a hit with hardcore G-fans. That's to be expected. But I doubt it did much to extend Toho's reach to anyone else. Now, many G-Fans are purists and want to keep their fandom to themselves, and think that's fine. So maybe that's okay. 

Like I said elsewhere in my house we have kids ranging from toddler to teen. NONE of them enjoyed this show (barring the Anguiras fight episode). This show is aimed at adult otaku, and adult G-fans in particular. 

I'm never thrilled when adults take over a fandom and make it exclusive to themselves. (Tarantino Star Trek? Ugh.) Even the original '54 film was aimed at adults, but had elements to keep kids in the seats. Good writers know how to craft stories to satisfy their full audience.

At least there's enough other (older) Godzilla material to satisfy others. We've got a huge library to choose from. But Toho's on the wrong track in the current era.

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-19-2021 11:42 AM

Even the original '54 film was aimed at adults, but had elements to keep kids in the seats. 

I disagree heaviy with this statement. I can say for sure, that if I had seen that film as a child, I would not be interested in godzilla. I dont get how a child could sit through long courtroom discussions, or stand watching nother child scream because thier mother died from radiation sickness.

 

Singular Point was entertaining through the characters to me. And exposition spouting isnt the best description for them. What they say is believable its more of them learning. Take a look that the scenes when Yun realizes anguirus can see into the future. 

Tono is creating a lot of Godzilla themed content for children right now. Godziban and chibiGodzilla are examples. And Godzilla in shinkalion movie as well. I dont feel that Toho is avoiding children, but what we’re being exposed to are the more adult themed films. Godzilla is branching out, and not just to adults. 

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-20-2021 1:08 PM

BigGrayGolem,
The show was ranked #3 on Japan's Netflix over the last few weeks. It takes more than a hardcore fanbase to accomplish that.

The hardcore fanbase showed up and largely love King of the Monsters in theaters, but the general audience didn't seem to pick up on it.

That said, anime is already a niche style in the west these days. If we're speaking of the English-speaking or Western fandom alone, we have to consider that much of the audience is already nerfed by the anime genre wall.

Toho has been doing a great job experimenting and twisting the per-concieved notions of the franchise over the last few years. If it's not very inviting to some younger audiences, that's fine since there's plenty for them in it already. There's no, "wrong track" for a franchise this diverse and while I can understand having issues with the series from an execution standpoint, the idea of asserting the franchise is not diverse enough to include stories that only appeal to specific demographics feels myopic.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-20-2021 4:19 PM

Kan Sawada's complete rendition of Ifukube's Godzilla March has been uploaded to Youtube:

Godzilla's March - Singular Point

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-20-2021 4:39 PM

I love it. I love the accent on the bottom chords that I never really much attention to in other renditions. The choir chant is a nice touch as well, works well with the apocalyptic nature of Goji

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-21-2021 9:48 AM

A poster was released to commemorate the 13th episode being broadcast on television this week in Japan. (The Netflix episodes release a week early and then repeat on broadcast later.)

The fanfare for it has been quite real overseas:

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

SasquaDash

MemberAnguirusJun-24-2021 4:18 PM

Unpopular Opinion:

I didn't really like it that much... The animation is amazing and there's some really cool moments. But the story was way too convoluted and confusing, most of the show is focused on a lot of overly complicated technobabble and it was extremely hard to follow (it felt like there was too much going on at once). The series kept flip flopping on it's plot points and it seemed like the writers couldn't decide on certain details, the fact that they kept changing the origins of the monsters and the origin point of the song became extremely annoying, it's like they were just throwing out ideas to see what stuck. Other ideas constantly contradicted themselves, at one point they state that monsters like Gabara-I mean Salunga could control the red mist and then in another scene they state that the monsters were created and controlled by the red mist (Which is it?). Most of the characters were okay, although I felt like the AIs were more annoying than cute, especially the whole Jet Jaguar talking like a baby bit. Godzilla himself kind of felt like an afterthought and it almost felt like they kept forgetting he was there, he seemed more like a special guest star as opposed to being one of the main focal points. I didn't really like that the "new" monsters and Godzilla's early forms just recycled design elements from older monsters. I didn't completely dislike it, I did enjoy it way more than the Polygon trilogy. Overall I had really high hopes and I just felt a bit letdown.

My current rating is 2.5/5 (Mixed Bag)

"Neither beast nor man. Something monstrous."

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-24-2021 10:24 PM

 SasquaDash

THis is where I disagree with you. The main thing that really stands out about this show to me is how original it is. Rather that the same pattern that much of the godzilla media follows of Monster vs Monster, or Godzilla comes on land, stop it. 

"Other ideas constantly contradicted themselves, at one point they state that monsters like Gabara-I mean Salunga could control the red mist and then in another scene they state that the monsters were created and controlled by the red mist" I honestly dont see your problem with this. Im pretty sure, that the second statement was never said. 

 

"Godzilla himself kind of felt like an afterthought and it almost felt like they kept forgetting he was there, he seemed more like a special guest star as opposed to being one of the main focal points."

This isnt a problem. Godzilla wasnt even the main focus of the Original movie.

"I didn't really like that the "new" monsters and Godzilla's early forms just recycled design elements from older monsters." I thought they were fantastic! Salunga was an amazing deisign and the more I look at it I see Gabara and Baragon less and less. JUst because it has a horn and the sam skin color doesnt mean theyre the same kaiju. It came off more mmonkey like.

The show kept me entertained the entire time and everything seemed very intentional. And I say again, it isnt bogged down by the usual format of ultraman and monsterverse, and much other godzilla movies. 

 

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-25-2021 12:18 AM

Here, here. Second time watching the show and I'm truly sucked in to the world, the procedure and the ideas. I'll likely watch it a third time, once again in Japanese again just to check out Netflix's subtitles. Though I'm surprised at how well the English dub sounds. Johnny Yong Bosch (the Black Ranger from Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers) is a perfect English speaking Yun.

Also, Dman on youtube did a tremendous cover of Sawada's, Alapu Upala, (another example of the mirror concept Mei brought up with "6=9"). Looks like we'll be getting a few different variations of this fantastic piece on the soundtrack, but until then...

Alapu Upala - Godzilla Singular Point [Piano Cover]

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

SasquaDash

MemberAnguirusJun-25-2021 8:03 AM

HinikunaGoji

There were ideas that I liked and the animation was fantastic, but I feel like the series got bogged down too much by the over bearing technobabble. A little bit is fine, but when 90% of the dialogue is made up of it, it becomes extremely jumbled and hard to follow. Heck, there were times where I was wondering if the characters even knew what they were talking about. It felt like there was too much going on at once and the plot became too convoluted and confusing, it got to the point where I had a hard time trying to comprehend what was happening. The fact that they kept flip flopping between the origins of the monsters (ranging from them being prehistoric, them being from space, them being deep sea creatures, them being from another dimensions, to them evolving from the red dust) really annoyed me, seriously pick an origin and stick with it. It really made me appreciate the simplicity of the the other Godzilla stories. I also find in ironic that the series is made out of technobabble and exposition dumps, yet there's things that they flat out don't explain why did the blood of the Sarunga/Megalon/Kumonga creature come to life and become Hedorah-like creatures?, Why could Godzilla Terrestris's blood become tentacles that protected it from harm? What was the Shadow Rodan? How did Salunga get into that facility? None of this was explained and it just added to the confusion.

The new monster designs just felt uninspired to me, there were aspects of them I liked, but for the most part they felt really unoriginal. Looking at Salunga, Godzilla Amphibia, and Godzilla Aquatilis I couldn't help but think of how much I would rather be watching Gabara, Varan, and Titanosaurus and how it would have been cooler to see them return instead. Godzilla Ultima looked amazing though.

I mentioned Godzilla feeling like an afterthought. He doesn't fully appear until the end of episode 6 and then doesn't actually become Godzilla until the end of episode 10. Even when he's finally in the show they barely show him, there are long periods of time where they cut away from Godzilla and they barely mention him, there are times where it almost seems like they forget about him. I like a good build up (I love Godzilla 2014 for that reason), but when you spend 2/3 of the series waiting to see Godzilla in action, only for them to barely show or mention him, it's pretty annoying.

I didn't hate it, like I said there were things that I enjoyed (I sure as hell liked it a lot better than the Polygon Trilogy), but there was a lot that dragged it down for me. With all of the hype, I had big expectations for it, but in the end I just felt let down. I may watch it again in the future and my opinions may change, but as far as my initial reaction, I was just really disappointed. 

I find it interesting that the most praise that I've seen being given to it (besides the animation) is that "different" and that it's not the MonsterVerse (or that it's not "American"). To me the reactions that I've seen feel more like a "Japanese Godzilla vs American Godzilla" situation with fans arguing over which ones "better", which I find kind of ridiculous.

"Neither beast nor man. Something monstrous."

G. H. (Gman)

AdminGodzillaJun-25-2021 8:59 AM

"To me the reactions that I've seen feel more like a "Japanese Godzilla vs American Godzilla" situation with fans arguing over which ones "better", which I find kind of ridiculous."

Indeed, especially since I haven't seen much of that at all. In fact many of the people praising it are also fans of the Monsterverse merely enjoying the series for what it is rather than comparing it to anything. Rightfully so as the series is excellent without comparison. It is a great deal better than the Monsterverse, but I don't think that's really a conversation worth having when there's so much meat in the series itself worth mining without the need for comparison.

"'Nostalgic' does not equal 'good,' and 'standards' does not equal 'elitism.'" "Being offended is inevitable. Living offended is your choice."

SasquaDash

MemberAnguirusJun-25-2021 9:23 AM

G. H. (Gman)

Yet, you've been comparing Singular Point to the MonsterVerse, mostly as a way of discrediting the MonsterVerse.  

"but after the Monsterverse, I'm happy to have a Godzilla story that swings the pendulum very, very far in the opposite direction."

"The show was ranked #3 on Japan's Netflix over the last few weeks. It takes more than a hardcore fanbase to accomplish that.

The hardcore fanbase showed up and largely love King of the Monsters in theaters, but the general audience didn't seem to pick up on it."

"It is a great deal better than the Monsterverse"

Hell, the Wingard quote that you've been using is another way you've been trying to disregard the MonsterVerse and throw it under the bus...

"Neither beast nor man. Something monstrous."

Djdndnejwnwn

MemberGiganJun-25-2021 3:07 PM

SasquaDash

Of course singular Point and Monsterverse are gonna be compared. WHich is better is up to the individual, but if you look at the general reception SP has better recieved by the general public is entirely true.

"The show was ranked #3 on Japan's Netflix over the last few weeks. It takes more than a hardcore fanbase to accomplish that.

The hardcore fanbase showed up and largely love King of the Monsters in theaters, but the general audience didn't seem to pick up on it."

This isn't bashing its just entirely true. And plus using a comment not related to monsterverse (the one about #3) and presenting it as one doesnt help support your case.

expecting the worst, sets you up for thr worst

SasquaDash

MemberAnguirusJun-25-2021 5:39 PM

HinikunaGoji

"And plus using a comment not related to monsterverse (the one about #3) and presenting it as one doesnt help support your case."

The comment did relate to the MonsterVerse though, The full comment was this:

"The show was ranked #3 on Japan's Netflix over the last few weeks. It takes more than a hardcore fanbase to accomplish that.

The hardcore fanbase showed up and largely love King of the Monsters in theaters, but the general audience didn't seem to pick up on it."

Essentialy he's saying "look at how much better that Singular Point did, King of the Monsters didn't do that well so Singular point is superior". He's directly using Singular Points successfulness to discredit the MonsterVerse.  

Personally I don't care if he likes Singular Point more (that's his opinion), but the fact that he seems to use any opportunity to throw the MonsterVerse under the bus and to mock the filmmakers involved with that series has gotten really annoying and tiresome.

"Neither beast nor man. Something monstrous."
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